Thomas Jefferson stated:

[DeepseekerADS]

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”

They must stop trading liberty for security.

They must stop thinking the role of the government is to be involved in all aspects of their lives.

They must take a good look at what the proper role of government is.

They must understand that as government expands, liberty contracts.

That government is best, which governs least.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”

They must stop trading liberty for security.

They must stop thinking the role of the government is to be involved in all aspects of their lives.

They must take a good look at what the proper role of government is.

They must understand that as government expands, liberty contracts.

That government is best, which governs least.

He ALSO had SLAVES!

 

[Peyton Manning]

and he didn't think women should vote or own land

 

[Chadeaux]

He ALSO had SLAVES!

Quit your bellyaching. So did many of his time contemporaries own slaves ... including some blacks. Black Slave Owners: Did They Exist?

Why do liberals always want to bring that up while ignoring the fact that the free blacks of that time (yep, not all were slaves) also owned - that is, bought and sold - other blacks like cattle.

Whether or not he owned slaves does not affect the validity of his statements.

and he didn't think women should vote or own land

... much the same as his contemporaries, including his political adversaries as well as the blacks who were slave owners.

Again, it does not affect the validity of his statements.

Equal rights is a relatively young concept among governments, or did you read your history lessons in grammar school?

 

[austin]

Of course he said that. He was an Anti-Federalist and against big government. He and his supporters insisted on a bill of rights that would guarantee individual liberty and would not support the constitution until one was written. He also said that one political party was enough, then creates another one(Democratic-Republican). I think we still have two major ones today that don't compromise too well. He is also the guy that espoused "nullification" which didn't work out too well for the south. To go back, remember the Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? John Locke had said Life, Liberty and Property, but Jefferson was basically upper class and in no way did he want to guarantee land to the common man. By the way, what is the pursuit of happiness?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Quit your bellyaching. So did many of his time contemporaries own slaves ... including some blacks. Black Slave Owners: Did They Exist?

Why do liberals always want to bring that up while ignoring the fact that the free blacks of that time (yep, not all were slaves) also owned - that is, bought and sold - other blacks like cattle.

Whether or not he owned slaves does not affect the validity of his statements.



... much the same as his contemporaries, including his political adversaries as well as the blacks who were slave owners.

Again, it does not affect the validity of his statements.

Equal rights is a relatively young concept among governments, or did you read your history lessons in grammar school?

Think I am a LIBERAL, eh...? POLITICS! "History lessons in grammar school..."; a "put-down"...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Of course he said that. He was an Anti-Federalist and against big government. He and his supporters insisted on a bill of rights that would guarantee individual liberty and would not support the constitution until one was written. He also said that one political party was enough, then creates another one(Democratic-Republican). I think we still have two major ones today that don't compromise too well. He is also the guy that espoused "nullification" which didn't work out too well for the south. To go back, remember the Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? John Locke had said Life, Liberty and Property, but Jefferson was basically upper class and in no way did he want to guarantee land to the common man. By the way, what is the pursuit of happiness?

"Individual liberty"...? For WEALTHY, slave-owning, WHITE men... only (BOR); amendments had to be added throughout the years to include EVERYONE. HAPPINESS...? Only the Dalai Lama knows for sure... LOL!

 

[kevin hoffman]

Sadly it seems the small government crowd has been hi-jacked, when it applies to them small govt. is okay,but when it comes to womens rights [ abortion and contreception ], the right to organize, [free speech and unions ] discrimination of people [ voting restrictions, gay marriage ] enviormental protection [fraccing has damaged wells, major oil development has damaged fisheries] , when these ' rights ' are infringed the small govt . crowd needs to stand up and say this ain't right !! . We should all be toghether on more good jobs and welfare will shrink , good working conditions and disability from dangerous jobs will go down [asbestos, and poor ventilation ,yes this is still a danger] Good schools so our children wont see welfare as a career. The real debate is HOW to accomplish this , GIVE me a better idea ! Not how to defund healthcare,DO YOU REALLY want your grandparents choosing between food and medication ? The FIGHT is not to keep a smaller group from voting ! but to hear thier ideas on how to fix this !! I truley believe we all want about the same , lets work together these coming years

 

[Muddyhandz]

Think I am a LIBERAL, eh...? POLITICS! "History lessons in grammar school..."; a "put-down"...?

What do expect from someone who still watches Fox news!

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

My own uncle was a restavec, more or less. Grandma & grandpa were very poor, her aunt and uncle had more money and property, and would need help in the summer, so they would sell me uncle for, I believe he said, for $10.00 a month. We are talking about in the 1930's. He was grateful, he worked for family, was well cared for and loved, there was never abuse. This was life and the norm.....
My parents and relatives were working the fields in hard labor for 2 cents a day, at 3 and 4 yrs old, back in the 20's and 30's. The adults made a nickel a day.

My family would have been extremely happy to have been share-croppers, instead, they were only half-croppers. If I remember correctly, there are Biblical guidelines, for how one was to treat a slave. I guess it was on ones' own individual moral compass, as to how they treated their fellow man and neighbor (slaves).

I have some info packed away, on T.J. and John Adams, I'd have to dig it out, but for their time in history, the had a better understanding of "Laws for Living", for individual freedoms (those that were allowed), than most understood. Glad we have grown much since then, and I hope we as a nation can continue to shed our prejudices/divisions and grow for humanities' betterment. Sorry to say, world wide, slavery is still very much rampant

 

[Bum Luck]

...........but Jefferson was basically upper class and in no way did he want to guarantee land to the common man..........

Jefferson wanted a nation of yeoman farmers.

He was the principal author of the Northwest Ordinance, which sold land off to settlers making their way west in 40 acre parcels, small enough for anyone to purchase. We all know this story, and most of us are part of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinance_of_1784

In spite of speculation and the inevitable abuses, the ownership of land was spread quite evenly across the Midwest, with fewer of the massive estates that came to dominate the southern and eastern regions. I don't think it's to far fetched to say that without that Ordinance, the US may have returned to an aristocracy.

As far as slavery, the Ordinance laid the foundation for toppling slavery by prohibiting it in the new territories (later states). Knowing that Jefferson was a smart man, I'm convinced that he did that for the purpose of ending slavery. Of course, it couldn't be done otherwise in his time. I don't think he foresaw that it would take a civil war to accomplish it, but that's speculative.

On his tour of the United States — nearly fifty years after the Ordinance — Alexis de Tocqueville discoursed at length about the differences between Ohio and Kentucky. This article concludes with his prescient words:

“The State of Ohio is separated from Kentucky just by one river; on either side of it the soil is equally fertile, and the situation equally favorable, and yet everything is different.​

Here (in Ohio) a population devoured by feverish activity, trying every means to make its fortune; the population seems poor to look at, for they work with their hands, but that work is the source of riches. There (in Kentucky) is a people which makes others work for it and shows little compassion, a people without energy, mettle or the spirit of enterprise…​

The population of Kentucky, which has been peopled for nearly a century, grows slowly. Ohio only joined the Confederation thirty years ago and has a million inhabitants. Within those thirty years Ohio has become the entrepot for the wealth that goes up and down the Mississippi; it has opened two canals and joined the Gulf of Mexico to the North Coast; meanwhile Kentucky, older and perhaps better placed, stood still.​

These differences cannot be attributed to any other cause but slavery. It degrades the black population and enervates the white. Its fatal effects are recognized, and yet it is preserved and will be preserved for a long time more…”
​

Aristocracy or Democracy. A vital economy or feudalism.

I am tired of everyone quoting Jefferson for their own agendas. He was in the top 5 people in his time responsible for our democracy. They had the power, and they gave it to us. Who among us would do that now?

Read up on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

We owe a lot to him.

 

[Bum Luck]

Sadly it seems the small government crowd has been hi-jacked, when it applies to them small govt. is okay,but when it comes to womens rights [ abortion and contreception ], the right to organize, [free speech and unions ] discrimination of people [ voting restrictions, gay marriage ] enviormental protection [fraccing has damaged wells, major oil development has damaged fisheries] , when these ' rights ' are infringed the small govt . crowd needs to stand up and say this ain't right !! . We should all be toghether on more good jobs and welfare will shrink , good working conditions and disability from dangerous jobs will go down [asbestos, and poor ventilation ,yes this is still a danger] Good schools so our children wont see welfare as a career. The real debate is HOW to accomplish this , GIVE me a better idea ! Not how to defund healthcare,DO YOU REALLY want your grandparents choosing between food and medication ? The FIGHT is not to keep a smaller group from voting ! but to hear thier ideas on how to fix this !! I truley believe we all want about the same , lets work together these coming years

I also have noticed that a lot of public employees are Tea Partiers; what is it, a sense of guilt? Pandering to small business owners like me? Obfuscating and diversion?

Being on the Public Payroll is OK for them, but not the rest?

What's that called?

 

[Chadeaux]

,DO YOU REALLY want your grandparents choosing between food and medication ?

Hell of a lot better than getting a note from the government that the panel of 3 lawyers and 2 doctors had a majority decision that you should receive "end of life counseling" as you will receive no more medical treatment ... not because you don't want it, but because you aren't "cost efficient" because you can't produce any more.

Of course, you guys pushing for that would probably benefit as those who are physically unable to contribute to society will be deemed to be too big of a burden on the state and get their "end of life counseling" as well.

The "end of life counseling" performed under Hitler was either by a bullet or gas chamber.

 

[Chadeaux]

Quit your bellyaching. So did many of his time contemporaries own slaves ... including some blacks. Black Slave Owners: Did They Exist?

Why do liberals always want to bring that up while ignoring the fact that the free blacks of that time (yep, not all were slaves) also owned - that is, bought and sold - other blacks like cattle.

Whether or not he owned slaves does not affect the validity of his statements.



... much the same as his contemporaries, including his political adversaries as well as the blacks who were slave owners.

Again, it does not affect the validity of his statements.

Equal rights is a relatively young concept among governments, or did you read your history lessons in grammar school?

Think I am a LIBERAL, eh...? POLITICS! "History lessons in grammar school..."; a "put-down"...?

The first paragraph of my statement (quoted above) was a response to your statement. Whether you are a liberal or not is immaterial. But, it the shoe fits ....

The second paragraph, which in my original post was in response to someone else's post, was not addressed to you, but it is grammar school history. We learned about women's suffrage in the third grade down in that backwards state of Louisiana.

It wasn't a put down but a question as to whether they had done their lessons.

 

[Chadeaux]

What do expect from someone who still watches Fox news!

Re read my statement, don't take rebel's misinterpretation as "gospel". As for what I watch, been quite clear I watch and listen to ALL different versions, and make up my own mind. Your statement sir/madam IS a putdown.

 

[davest]

chad, chad, chad. you still haven't posted your verification of the "death panel" bull. I know, you have read the healthcare bill and have come to some weird delusional place where you see things that don't exist.

It is one thing to have your opinion, another to have a fact.

BTW, I know his is off topic, but while you were trumpeting the weather at your house, the people in Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota were sending kid home from school due to abnormally hot weather and the lack of air conditioning there due to them never needing it before. Wasssup wit dat?

 

[Chadeaux]

chad, chad, chad. you still haven't posted your verification of the "death panel" bull. I know, you have read the healthcare bill and have come to some weird delusional place where you see things that don't exist.

It is one thing to have your opinion, another to have a fact.

Dave dave dave, you still haven't bothered to read the bill. When you do, you'll know

BTW, I know his is off topic, but while you were trumpeting the weather at your house, the people in Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota were sending kid home from school due to abnormally hot weather and the lack of air conditioning there due to them never needing it before. Wasssup wit dat?

I guess they forgot about the 1930's and figured it couldn't happen again ... "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

In the south, we call it poor planning.

 

[Peyton Manning]

Quit your bellyaching. So did many of his time contemporaries own slaves ... including some blacks. Black Slave Owners: Did They Exist?

Why do liberals always want to bring that up while ignoring the fact that the free blacks of that time (yep, not all were slaves) also owned - that is, bought and sold - other blacks like cattle.

Whether or not he owned slaves does not affect the validity of his statements.



... much the same as his contemporaries, including his political adversaries as well as the blacks who were slave owners.

Again, it does not affect the validity of his statements.

Equal rights is a relatively young concept among governments, or did you read your history lessons in grammar school?

no one said he was the only one with wrong ideas and practices. But that is exactly the point. Some of his ideas were good and some not. He was another imperfect man, so just because he was a founding father doesn't make everything he said some heavenly insight.

 

[Chadeaux]

no one said he was the only one with wrong ideas and practices. But that is exactly the point. Some of his ideas were good and some not. He was another imperfect man, so just because he was a founding father doesn't make everything he said some heavenly insight.

Then why is it ok, every time someone quotes him for some whiner to say: "He ALSO had SLAVES!"?

We all know it is irrelevant as even SOME FREE BLACKS owned slaves as well, it is just a statement meant to create shock and to discredit EVERYTHING he ever said.

Some people just can't rest whenever Thomas Jefferson is given any kind of credit. It really gets under their skin ... just like a guilty man squirming on the witness stand, they must discredit anyone who exposes the evil they have done.

 

[Peyton Manning]

well there's no record the blacks in the slave trade started a nation. And since TJ was one behind the statement " we hold that all men are created equal"
one might expect it to really mean 'all' men. not just white ones who owned land.