To ask, or not to ask...

[AugustMoose87]

So when I started detecting last year, I would have said you ask for permission to detect every time, just to be safe. Even in Parks and stuff, because by asking first, you can avoid trouble. Now that I've been at it a while, I absolutely see how there are some times you should ask (someone's front yard) and others that asking will only stir the pot (public Parks). However, I am wondering about the grey area, and how everyone approaches those. Like churches, cemeteries, and even some schools - most of them are open to the public, but not really for recreation purposes. My gut (or maybe my internal Park Ranger) says asking is the way to go, but I'm curious to hear others thoughts.

When do you ask first, and when do you just start swinging?

 

[Johnnoh]

You detect cemeteries?

 

[ivan salis]

well if its privately owned land of any type --say a church---of course I'd ask the owner / person in charge of it ...if its publicly owned and there are no signs saying and its not a no detecting "historic type zone" ... then I'd hunt it , using it fot recreation just like other folks do , baseball ,football, hikers , dog walkers .ect.. since I am just "entitled" to use the park as they are ... anywhere that people are buried * is a not go zone for me some folks might tnk your digging up folks and yanking rings or jewelry off em or pulling gold fillings out --not the sort of image of detecting I want folks to think of.....

 

[against the wind]

It doesn't hurt to strike up a pleasant conversation with the guys who take care of public schools and parks. Some cities, parks, counties, etc require permits. All National Parks and cemeteries are off limits. In today's world of internet access,, it is simple to send an e-mail inquiring about rules or restrictions. Always plan ahead if you are traveling any kind of distance. It will save you a lot of aggravation. If you trespass and start digging on someone's property, posted or not, you are breaking the law. Remember,, you are an ambassador of the hobby,, the impression you make on people who don't understand what we do may be the reason we don't get permission the next time.

 

[OldJerseyGirl]

I have a church that I would love to hunt. Not the place where people are buried, but a big open lot next to it. It is a very old church and I think it is where they had picnics and parked. But, I do not know who I could ask. It is no longer used, as they built a church a little up the road from it. I see nothing wrong with that. I would not hunt the graves or between them. I would never hunt without permission.

 

[TheHunterGT]

You detect cemeteries?

I snickered at that as it was my first response reading the original post. I could never do it...permission or not. Bad juju or whatever you want to call it.

In my part of eastern Colorado...the only thing we cannot detect is the Commanche National Grassland. Everything else is a go pretty much. when I called the local PD and Sheriff (for county) they said have fun and even gave me a few cool spots to go detect. They DID however say to call any schools I wanted to dig.

Churches being private property will be a ask situation...in my area anyways. Not sure about the Bible Belt part of our county...perhaps free reign there. Not here...Churches = private property and schools are considered a "ask the board" type situation.

 

[CaballoDeOro]

One thing to bear in mind about hunting around churches: Even if you're not hunting the cemetery itself (which I would never do and I believe it is potentially illegal), someone driving by might see you near the church and assume you're digging around graves. There's a great deal of potential for it to cast our hobby in a bad light and that's not something we can afford.

 

[TerryC]

You detect cemeteries?

Yes, I do. NOT above or around graves but why not around the old trees? If kids were allowed to climb the trees and play around them (old coins) why can't I play around them with my machine? LEAVE NO UNFILLED HOLES. But the holes get filled (not the 6 footers, though) wherever I dig. TTC

 

[releventchair]

I have a church that I would love to hunt. Not the place where people are buried, but a big open lot next to it. It is a very old church and I think it is where they had picnics and parked. But, I do not know who I could ask. It is no longer used, as they built a church a little up the road from it. I see nothing wrong with that. I would not hunt the graves or between them. I would never hunt without permission.

The township office covering where the property is located has tax info on the property.
A polite inquiry from me at my local office has produced landowner names. I then located a contact number/address on my own after obtaining them.
They have that info. too but I don't ask for it ,though years ago( for another purpose) the office in a different community gave me contact numbers during repeated calls of adjacent owners over multiple parcels.

I don't tell them I am seeking permission to metal detect...
Only wanting to know who owns the parcel.
If asked by the clerk why? I'd say I like the old church and history and would like more info from the person or people who own it.

 

[Sandman]

I sold a few stories to treasure magazines in my younger day and one was about hunting cemeteries to which I received a nice reject letter from the editor. I wish I wish I had saved it. It is definitely a no no to detect cemeteries for lots of reasons.

 

[CaballoDeOro]

Yes, I do. NOT above or around graves but why not around the old trees?

Sometimes I wish there was a 'dislike'.

 

[Patriots]

Why not? A ton of reasons. I have lived all over the world and sometimes the old cemeteries are now apart of the public park. People walk through them, have lunch and go about their daily lives. There is still a sign of respect. I have never considered detecting a cemetery and when I find old grave markers I stop detecting if I'm in a remote area. I will even clear the marker, of weeds or debris, if I have time to show some respect.

 

[Fletch88]

I hunt a few schools and old churches with cemeteries, although not actually in the cemetery but as TerryC eluded to, around huge old oak trees and church grounds. I usually go at daylight and never leave any trace that I was there. I also quit detecting if anyone does happen to show up to visit cemeteries which are in close proximity to the churches.

 

[metaljunkie]

I always ask permission at churches. Most are very welcoming and appreciate you asking. One minister told of how people would come on the property and detect without permission. These people would be told to leave. He explained it was a liability issue. I also thought respect. Anyway I now can go anytime. Oh and yes it has produced some old silver...

 

[flgliderpilot]

How do you usually ask? Something along the lines of looking for old coins or anything historical, and will of course return anything found of value?

 

[TerryC]

Sometimes I wish there was a 'dislike'.

I respect everyone and all reasons for or against digging cemeteries. I have a problem with anyone that goes to dig a cemetery or anywhere else AT NIGHT. I have NEVER disturbed a grave or any other burial place. If a 300 year old tree was there before the AREA was a cemetery, I don't equate that tree with a grave... except those plants that are specifically planted to mark a grave. I guess my argument is the same one I would use to "take sides" for or against archeologists' reasoning prohibiting detecting old sites simply because they are old. BLM land belongs to the people.... so should be the artifacts found on such lands. Cemeteries are (usually) private lands. If the owner of that land has no issues with detecting those areas that do not contain graves, neither do I. TTC

 

[MineralsAndThings]

Yes but send an e-mail to who? I'm also 23 and I don't know if people will be less willing to give me permission because of my age.

 

[AugustMoose87]

So far, I have steered clear of the grey areas. I've hunted parks and school yards that are open to the public, the yard of a few family members, and the site of an old house that was torn down, with permission from the open space manager from the city.

When I have asked, I generally say something to the extent of "I'm curious if there are any neat old coins there, and of course I would share anything I find with you". I always offer 50/50 split, but so far no one has taken me up on it (probably because I have yet to find more than $0.50 in modern clad any where). I have tried e-mails, and phone calls, but my experience with asking permission for waterfowl hunting tells me that anytime you can meet face to face, you have a better chance of getting a yes. I have a few I am working on trying to set up a meeting, but I generally avoid asking permission via e-mail or phone if I think I can meet face to face.

As for the cemeteries - no, I have not hunted one - yet. Given the right set of circumstances, I would though. Just seems like almost every book or article I've read about place to MD mention them - I guess it used to be common to go and picnic there.

 

[AugustMoose87]

Perhaps a better illustration of the dilemma would be a sidewalk tear out. I know tons of us have detected them, and while I haven't, I'm going to as soon as I get the chance. That being said, having worked for multiple government agencies, I know if I was ever working on a tear out, we would not allow the public to enter the work area for any reason, due to liability concerns. I know for a fact that people have been cited for just walking through. So in that case, you are in a location that is typically open to the public, it is public property, but at least where I'm at, I KNOW they don't want people in the work area. I KNOW if I were to contact someone and ask, I would get an immediate "NO". But I also know that if I went there after the workers had gone home for the day, and left no trace (fill hole, take trash, etc.) no one would know or care.

Curb strips are another great example - they often belong to the city, but the home owners are often the ones who care for them. Some people, knowing they are part of the public right of way, just go and detect them. However, I can see the argument for getting permission from BOTH the city AND the homeowner first.

I absolutely understand that we are ambassadors for our hobbie, which is why I go out of my way to have pleasant, positive interactions with everyone while I am detecting, even if it means lost time detecting or giving some of my finds to kids. I guess I just see both sides of the coin - you can ask, get a yes and KNOW you are good to go, or you can say "the public is allowed to recreate there, why can't I?" and then be polite and ask forgiveness if they don't want you there. That is what I have done with the school yards around here - the playgrounds and fields are open to the public outside of school hours, so I go and detect. I don't have permission from the school board, or principle, or anyone else. No one has approached me yet, but I am ready to have a pleasant conversation when that finally happens.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

August moose, I liked your opening intro:

So when I started detecting last year, I would have said you ask for permission to detect every time, just to be safe. Even in Parks and stuff, because by asking first, you can avoid trouble. Now that I've been at it a while, I absolutely see how there are some times you should ask (someone's front yard) and others that asking will only stir the pot (public Parks).....

Good observations in a year's time. Because you're right: It doesn't necessarily "avoid trouble". It sometimes ends in "no's", d/t the psychology of "no one cared TILL you asked" routine. And worse yet, that pencil pusher who gave you the "safe" answer (who perhaps would never have given the subject a moment's thought), will now boot other md'rs

As opposed to this stance:

It doesn't hurt to strike up a pleasant conversation with the guys who take care of public schools and parks.....

.

Yes it most definately can. They can just give whimsical "no's", even though no rule exists that truly said such a thing. Just because they imagine geeks with shovels, or think you'll harm the earthworms. Or they think it constitutes "remove and harvest" verbage, etc.... And then later, you find out that that park or school is routinely detected, and no one ever had a problem before. Hmmmm.

...... Some cities, parks, counties, etc require permits.....

Ok, fine. But that still doesn't mean we should go ask "can I metal detect?". If someone is skittish that there a) might be a permit, or b) might be a "no md'ing" rule, then they can go look up in muni codes for themselves. Any such "permit" or "rule" will be listed in the city muni codes, rules, permits, etc.... If no such thing is there (ie.: no prohibitions or permits), then presto, it's not prohibited nor requires a permit.

august moose, I'll leave the churches and cemetaries to the others who've chimed in. But just wanted to add, that I group public schools into the "don't ask silly questions" category too. If others can go there to shoot hoops, jog the track, etc.... after hours, then I consider md'ing to be no more harmful or dangerous then that. Naturally be aware that md'ing has ... uh .... connotations. So you still use common sense and don't go begging for scrutiny at high traffic hours. Ie.: you don't waltz over beach blankets at archie conventions, etc....