Video - Journey to the Bat Cave

[cw0909]

Ryan thanks for the HD img ,just natures ware and tare, did you stack the
rocks in the foreground
looking forward to any more vids you do

 

[cw0909]

i ran across this collection listing pdf, while searching for a paper trail
of the bat cave, and it has a link in it, but i havent had much time to
look though it

http://repository.azgs.az.gov/sites...s/nid1423/ofr-12-13_heinrich_jr_inventory.pdf
AZGS Document Repository
AZGS Document Repository | document archiving, management and discovery

 

[RG1976]

@CW0909 no problem, sir! Sorry it wasn't more "treasure" like! I think its pretty easy to read into stuff out in the SWA, thats for sure.


Wanted to give an update on my "Adventures into the Superstition Wilderness Area" Video.

I have it all done - but it's not up to "par" with what I want to put out. It needs more content....so, these are locations I plan to go to and get footage of to make the video a little more exciting.

1) The Elusive "Pit Mine" that was found and described by some members here. I haven't seen any really good images / content for it yet - so this will be exciting for me. (with a lot of preparation)

2) Circle Stone

3) A large "circular" shape creation that some claim has a Peralta connection and possibly a mine underneath.

In the mean time, these 3 are areas that involve a much deeper and dedicated hike - so I've had to go and order a bunch of equipment to make my journey's safer.


Thank you SO much to all the folks, whom have asked to remain anonymous, that have supplied me coordinates and matching lore / legend of these 3 areas.

-Ryan



P.S. @Bill Riley don't get my thread locked posting links to other forums!! You Rule breaker, you!

 

[RG1976]

Joe! Thanks so much for taking the time to provide all those photos. Incredible!

I've heard a lot about you from a lot of the friends I've been making lately. It means a lot that you are over here on my thread as well.

Lots of prep to get to the pit mine - so nothing that I can do as fast as I'd like.

Thanks again and I hope you are doing well (better)

-Ryan

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe! Thanks so much for taking the time to provide all those photos. Incredible!

I've heard a lot about you from a lot of the friends I've been making lately. It means a lot that you are over here on my thread as well.

Lots of prep to get to the pit mine - so nothing that I can do as fast as I'd like.

Thanks again and I hope you are doing well (better)

-Ryan

Ryan,

Thank you for the kind words and good wishes.

After suffering for years with worsening balance problems, they finally figured out that I had encephalitis. Installed a drain with a valve and I am getting better every day.

In case you don't have the coordinates for the Pit Mine, I believe this will put you pretty close:

N 33 26 2.4 W111 11 44.2

As far as I know, it's been covered over again.

I still believe it's where Waltz had his gold ore, or got it. The man who took the pictures of the Kochera ore, told me he was certain "I know" it came from the Pit Mine. There are a couple of ways to get to the mine. In and out in a day.

I believe this is the view (Waltz drawing of Weaver's Needle) that Julia was trying to find:

Removed at request of source.

While not exact, you have to consider that it was being drawn by a dying man many years after he had last been there. The Needle is in the center of the picture.

Once again, good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Azquester]

@CW0909 no problem, sir! Sorry it wasn't more "treasure" like! I think its pretty easy to read into stuff out in the SWA, thats for sure.


Wanted to give an update on my "Adventures into the Superstition Wilderness Area" Video.

I have it all done - but it's not up to "par" with what I want to put out. It needs more content....so, these are locations I plan to go to and get footage of to make the video a little more exciting.

1) The Elusive "Pit Mine" that was found and described by some members here. I haven't seen any really good images / content for it yet - so this will be exciting for me. (with a lot of preparation)

2) Circle Stone

3) A large "circular" shape creation that some claim has a Peralta connection and possibly a mine underneath.

In the mean time, these 3 are areas that involve a much deeper and dedicated hike - so I've had to go and order a bunch of equipment to make my journey's safer.


Thank you SO much to all the folks, whom have asked to remain anonymous, that have supplied me coordinates and matching lore / legend of these 3 areas.

-Ryan



P.S. @Bill Riley don't get my thread locked posting links to other forums!! You Rule breaker, you!

AH Crap I forgot!

Anyway it looks as though they are getting their show material from Desert USA.

I'll pull the links down.

Sorry!

 

[cactusjumper]

One other thing about the Pit Mine, the folks who spent three months in the mine, believed it was the LDM. They, along with other very knowledgeable Dutch Hunter's, have the experience and inside knowledge needed to come to that conclusion.

Their opinions are, at least, as good as those who doubt it was Waltz's source for his ore. My opinion has, for years, been that the LDM was high on the east side of West Boulder Canyon, although I never searched for it.....on my own.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

One other thing about the Pit Mine, the folks who spent three months in the mine, believed it was the LDM. They, along with other very knowledgeable Dutch Hunter's, have the experience and inside knowledge needed to come to that conclusion.

Their opinions are, at least, as good as those who doubt it was Waltz's source for his ore. My opinion has, for years, been that the LDM was high on the east side of West Boulder Canyon, although I never searched for it.....on my own.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Considering that the Pit mine shows signs of being quite rich in silver, and the only assay done on ore from Waltz (by Holmes) showed a very low silver content, why would you think it is a match? Also, considering that the Ludy "brothers" mine story has some of the same elements, and thus probably is not related to Waltz, does that not raise questions for you? Remember some versions of the LDM have NO pit and tunnel, massacre etc. One early version of the Peralta mine was as a silver mine, and Bicknell reported finding a metal spoon with silver still on it, from primitive smelting activity. How can a mine have a huge funnel-shaped pit and tunnel, AND also be so small as to be "no bigger than a barrel" for an opening? Just curious, thanks in advance.

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[deducer]

Welcome back, Roy!

About time.

 

[gollum]

Roy,

I believe the answer to your question is pretty simple. MADE UP! One version has the Pit about 75 feet in diameter. One version has it a bit smaller, but Waltz said that he cut a lip into the pit and cut ironwood logs to cover the top. Can anybody tell me what part of the Supers you can find Ironwood Trees big enough to cover a 75 foot hole? I have never seen any that big. Also, a 75 foot diameter pit is not representative of ANY Spanish Mine I have ever seen. Typically, the entrances are small. Almost as small as Coyote Holes.



Mike

 

[djui5]

Ryan, I'd be happy to show u the pit mine

 

[Hal Croves]

One other thing about the Pit Mine, the folks who spent three months in the mine, believed it was the LDM. They, along with other very knowledgeable Dutch Hunter's, have the experience and inside knowledge needed to come to that conclusion.

Their opinions are, at least, as good as those who doubt it was Waltz's source for his ore. My opinion has, for years, been that the LDM was high on the east side of West Boulder Canyon, although I never searched for it.....on my own.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

cactusjumper,
What I am struggling to understand is why, if someone took anything more than prospecting samples from a location inside the SWA, would they brag about it? Anyone doing so would be subject to fines and or imprisonment, not to mention the unwanted attention of the IRS. It makes no logical sense to bring attention to it.

Could it it be just another legend?

 

[copperpot]

Some people think that the Pit Mine is the LDM.

To clarify, does anyone else here think that the Pit Mine is the LDM or not?

 

[Hal Croves]

Some people think that the Pit Mine is the LDM.

To clarify, does anyone else here think that the Pit Mine is the LDM or not?

Based on rumor and innuendo, I am almost certain that it is.
There was even an expedition to the site that proved it.

Fortunately, there are still plenty of other things to see in the SWA.

 

[releventchair]

RG 1976 thanks for the hike. Thanks alot. Enjoyed the sights and sites. Not having watched the show I don't know all the details of contrasts but do get the gist of it.
My body had to wait at the fence but the rest of me made it.

Bat Guano was very important to the Confederates .
From it was obtained, likely from leaching it out by using water from the river rather than transporting bulk guano (?), NITRATE.
Brehmer’s Cave in Texas(another cave area up in the hill country Rebs acquired guano from) yielded an average of four pounds nitrate from a hundred pounds of guano.
Why bat guano? Well, it has a normally high level nitrate,(saltpeter) but also is often located in a dry location. Very important to get best yield from a manure source that even has a high nitrate content; it needs to be kept dry or nitrates get leached out easily. Add the dryness in the desert and length of time of accumulation for greater volume and it's even better. (Hard to do in volume with chicken poop.)
I won't go into gunpowder making but suffice it to say the bat cave was a very important resource.
Well worth building a ladder and all the other challenges.
Later guano was fertilizer again but for the South at a time when powder was in demand bat guano from many locales was a type of treasure.
Maybe it proves the natives correct and bats did go to battle; in a way.
Some of the lightning and thunder generations of bats saw and felt; transferred to lightning and thunder of another kind.
Stay safe in your beautiful but not always forgiving environment.

 

[RG1976]

RG 1976 thanks for the hike. Thanks alot. Enjoyed the sights and sites. Not having watched the show I don't know all the details of contrasts but do get the gist of it.
My body had to wait at the fence but the rest of me made it.

Bat Guano was very important to the Confederates .
From it was obtained, likely from leaching it out by using water from the river rather than transporting bulk guano (?), NITRATE.
Brehmer’s Cave in Texas(another cave area up in the hill country Rebs acquired guano from) yielded an average of four pounds nitrate from a hundred pounds of guano.
Why bat guano? Well, it has a normally high level nitrate,(saltpeter) but also is often located in a dry location. Very important to get best yield from a manure source that even has a high nitrate content; it needs to be kept dry or nitrates get leached out easily. Add the dryness in the desert and length of time of accumulation for greater volume and it's even better. (Hard to do in volume with chicken poop.)
I won't go into gunpowder making but suffice it to say the bat cave was a very important resource.
Well worth building a ladder and all the other challenges.
Later guano was fertilizer again but for the South at a time when powder was in demand bat guano from many locales was a type of treasure.
Maybe it proves the natives correct and bats did go to battle; in a way.
Some of the lightning and thunder generations of bats saw and felt; transferred to lightning and thunder of another kind.
Stay safe in your beautiful but not always forgiving environment.

Im glad you enjoyed my video! Thank you so much! I also appreciate additional information about the confederates and the Guano! Thanks for taking the time to research and type that for everyone to see.

I hope that as time continues, the videos get away from anything "show" related and turn more as an introspective look into Peralta / Native / Dutchman Lore - which is my plan, based upon the locations I am going to be visiting.


Woke up this morning to a lot of emails from people - asking to be a part of my next video and offering to explain things a lot more. I feel "humbled"


Today - at this moment - I want to say Thank you! I started these videos thinking after the 1st or 2nd, they'd be over as soon as they started - but now I am realizing, this is just the beginning.

 

[RG1976]

Also - I have received a fairly long email from Bill Burger (Forest Service) in reply to my inquiry.

I am awaiting his response - asking for permission to post his reply publicly.

As soon as I get that answer, and he is okay with it, I will post for all to see in this thread.

-Ryan

 

[cactusjumper]

Considering that the Pit mine shows signs of being quite rich in silver, and the only assay done on ore from Waltz (by Holmes) showed a very low silver content, why would you think it is a match? Also, considering that the Ludy "brothers" mine story has some of the same elements, and thus probably is not related to Waltz, does that not raise questions for you? Remember some versions of the LDM have NO pit and tunnel, massacre etc. One early version of the Peralta mine was as a silver mine, and Bicknell reported finding a metal spoon with silver still on it, from primitive smelting activity. How can a mine have a huge funnel-shaped pit and tunnel, AND also be so small as to be "no bigger than a barrel" for an opening? Just curious, thanks in advance.

Roy ~ Oroblanco

Roy,

Good to see you back posting again.

I think Mike answered many of the questions that people have asked about the Pit Mine. I believe many if not most of the LDM clues are made up out of whole cloth.

I think you know I respect your opinions above most of the folks I know, but do wonder if the piece of ore in Frank's picture gives you some degree of pause? Once again, I don't see folks working that mine for silver ore back in 1997, 98 and 99. Big risk for relatively small return.

IMHO, many of the LDM stories and legends are woven around a few facts. Seldom see much meat on those bones, but good stories just the same.

When I look at Frank's picture, I doubt it could be anyone's piece of ore, other than the principles who worked it. Did it come from the Pit Mine or some other place? I believe I know the options for that to be the case. On the other hand, the rock looks like my samples from the Pit Mine.

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Roy,

Good to see you back posting again.

I think Mike answered many of the questions that people have asked about the Pit Mine. I believe many if not most of the LDM clues are made up out of whole cloth.

I think you know I respect your opinions above most of the folks I know, but do wonder if the piece of ore in Frank's picture gives you some degree of pause? Once again, I don't see folks working that mine for silver ore back in 1997, 98 and 99. Big risk for relatively small return.

IMHO, many of the LDM stories and legends are woven around a few facts. Seldom see much meat on those bones, but good stories just the same.

When I look at Frank's picture, I doubt it could be anyone's piece of ore, other than the principles who worked it. Did it come from the Pit Mine or some other place? I believe I know the options for that to be the case. On the other hand, the rock looks like my samples from the Pit Mine.

Take care,

Joe

joe....most of the members here are not hard rock miners and have no idea of the severe manual labor it takes to sink a shaft or bore a tunnel....no one...and i mean no one bores 300 foot of tunnel for low grade silver ore..and the samples of silver ore i saw from that area were no where near high grade...even if they were high grade ..say 1000 oz. per ton...it would still not be worth the risk...i'm with you on that..no way they worked it for silver...

 

[cactusjumper]

joe....most of the members here are not hard rock miners and have no idea of the severe manual labor it takes to sink a shaft or bore a tunnel....no one...and i mean no one bores 300 foot of tunnel for low grade silver ore..and the samples of silver ore i saw from that area were no where near high grade...even if they were high grade ..say 1000 oz. per ton...it would still not be worth the risk...i'm with you on that..no way they worked it for silver...

Dave,

Good to hear from you. Hope all is well at the home front.

As you know, I don't know $#!t about rocks, but it's nice to have someone who does know such things agree with my unqualified opinion. I'm not sure that they bored 300 ft. of tunnel, although I do believe they widened that tunnel, which is why those walls are so straight.

Do you think the ore that is in Frank's picture could also carry silver? I'm over my head here, but have always wondered if a rich vein of gold could be found in the middle of silver ore.

Take care,

Joe