Water Board meetings

[Oakview2]

 

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[Bejay]

It was mentioned, not told. I guess to me it was more of a difference in the way it was presented.

The environmentalist has been around (time wise) and knows that there is a good chance that dredging won't outright be banned, just [heavily] regulated. When they clearly laid out their plan and compromises, the government representatives were writing fiercely. They wrote when Shannon and Craig did too but not like they did during the environmentalist's plan... because we never really gave one.

I know Jerry Hobbs would roll over in his grave for me saying this, but at some point we have to come to some realistic expectations and make some mention of compromise. This our way or the highway method really hasn't got us anywhere and certainly doesn't appear to be getting us back in the water any time soon. We just don't have the financial backing the environmentalist side has to try and push the our way or the highway mentality forever. Either we offer concessions we can work with and try to get them to adopt them or we'll get the environmentalist's plan shoved down our throats.

Let's address working with the State and agreeing on "COMPROMISE"! I'll use Oregon as an example. In Oregon dredgers were voluntarily following an in water work/dredge time. Oregon dredgers were obeying the 4 inch dredge regs. These regs were under the Division of State Lands (DSL) recreational dredge permit. Then came the DEQ (Dept of Environmental Quality) which in reality was the State getting in bed with the EPA. In the end Oregon is "Closed to Dredging and Motorized Mining" on any drainage system that has adrionomous fish! Compromise did not work!

The State of Oregon does not care about law let alone compromise....they passed SB838, even after the Oregon initial DOJ recommendation presented to the then acting Governor, stated it was illegal and the State had NO authority. Does anyone really think a State gives a hoot when the Political environment is "all green"?

Bejay

 

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[winners58]

whats coming for Oregon is you can mine if you can "prove" your claim. other wise no mining in salmon habitat
I thought as far as the "state" goes that a claim was considered valid until proven otherwise, and
only the Federal government can can order a validity test. looks like Oregon has found a way around that.
by saying they will give you a permit if you can prove it would be a regulatory "taking" but by saying that,
you cant sue for a "taking" because they will give those a permit.
https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2017R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/SB3/Introduced

sorry don't mean to sidetrack this thread but a waterborg permit,,, then what... its never ending...

 

[Bejay]

Had not heard the Oregon "language to come". Oregon keeps getting "hoof in mouth disease". The original language dealt with motorized mining (which could easily have been ruled unconstitutional....one user group be allowed to use motors and another NOT be allowed). But the Oregon challenge was based on taking. That said it would be interesting to see how they would make that determination of "proof". The ONLY basis for the State was one of protecting fish...that was the whole intrusion to halt mining per their SB838. Now to say "oh well we will give up on the fish harm issue" and demand proof makes the fish issue moot IMHO.....negates their original argument!

Bejay

 

[RobertF]

Let's address working with the State and agreeing on "COMPROMISE"! I'll use Oregon as an example. In Oregon dredgers were voluntarily following an in water work/dredge time. Oregon dredgers were obeying the 4 inch dredge regs. These regs were under the Division of State Lands (DSL) recreational dredge permit. Then came the DEQ (Dept of Environmental Quality) which in reality was the State getting in bed with the EPA. In the end Oregon is "Closed to Dredging and Motorized Mining" on any drainage system that has adrionomous fish! Compromise did not work!

The State of Oregon does not care about law let alone compromise....they passed SB838, even after the Oregon initial DOJ recommendation presented to the then acting Governor, stated it was illegal and the State had NO authority. Does anyone really think a State gives a hoot when the Political environment is "all green"?

Bejay

Until there is some serious money put behind taking the government to court over all this (and not in response to a ticket) California gold dredgers will be out of the water.

Compromise might get dredgers back into the water for a while (months? years? I can't say.) but saying all or nothing now will get us nothing... now.

 

[Hoser John]

1 month gone in season 9 of this insidious ban bull...John

 

[Tuolumne]

anyone doing a powerpoint for the Sacramento meeting ? you can use google presentations to put slides together.
here is my opening slide from recent SF gate article that millions of people have viewed