When might a map of Oak Island not be Oak Island?

[Cryptid1990]

A better quality image:

Swallows and Amazons : Ransome Arthur : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Source: Digital Library of IndiaScanning Centre: Allama Iqbal Library, University of KashmirSource Library: S.p College, SrinagarDate Accessioned: 9/11/2015...

archive.org

If you look on the same page there is also a pirate with Jolly Roger flag:

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Exactly as I predicted: a total lack of objectivity, and outright bias! You know full well it doesn't look at all like Hatteras Island NC.

Furthermore, I never said Kidd went to Nova Scotia, and personally I don't believe he did. I never said the Money Pit isn't a joke, because that's what it looks to have become.

I simply asked, by comparing the two maps, could it be that the Rough Map is a depiction of Gloucester Isle? You decided not to provide an answer to that question because you jumped to the wrong conclusions having decided the answer before you even saw the question.

I'm sorry to say that this has become far too typical of this forum and, as a result, it's going nowhere, which I assume is the sole objective of your being here and providing such ridiculous and unhelpful comments.

Hi gjb, you might like to compare the carving depicting the island on the rummer (which was based on John Wares rough map) with the China Sea map. Now if you will for the moment forget the overall shapes (and which side of the island is shown at the bottom) other possible similarities are there, and please keep in mind that Kidd was very devious. In his time and on his own maps the main place was the anchorage at Joudary Cove NOT the Money Pit area which remains the focal point for numerous excavations today.

The angled compass drawn on the left side of both the map and the rummer point was (to what was purported to be) the North, the same angled compass is also depicted on the China Sea map. These islands were both as always drawn upside down in relation to what we often see depicted as Oak Island today which concentrates the Money Pit area, but in Captain Kidd's arrival in late1699 the mining work was finished, those concealed area's were not important at all.

Captain Kidd's maps showed the island from his own different viewpoint during one visit, and in 1699 his primary mission was at all cost to reach the "Secret Jetty" located in Joudary Cove. His desperate task was to reach the important anchorage (as shown on the Dead Man's Island map) and unload a massive amount of treasure, and he was greatly relieved to achieve that.
The precise position of the anchorage (a jetty of large stones) is also depicted on the China Sea map, and it still still exist today in Joudary Cove on the north side of Oak Island.
If you can concentrate on why the compass was drawn on an angle and drawn in that precise position you might find some clues, I believe it also contained a second secret message that is less obvious. On that map both north direction arrows point to the left of the central swampy valley, and to what is purported to be the east ( only on that false compass heading, in reality it points to the west) to find a wooded area. The real west side of Oak Island was/is thickly wooded), it is both carved on the rummer and shown as such on the Dead Mans Island Map.
As matter of interest the compass was drawn correctly on the Deadman Island map but Captain Kidd was at that time immensely over confident. He was no longer concerned about being cautious, why else would anyone rashly draw a scull and cross bones on an incriminating map which he signed. I believe that was his last map and if it had fallen into the wrong in the hands it would have got him hanged very quickly.
In my opinion irrespective of their different shapes, these three mentioned maps all depict Oak Island. We should not expect perfect images of it to have be drawn, or easy directions on how to locate the treasure. It was a top secret illegal facility that offered a unique service to prospective customers, to store or convert treasure into coinage. When Captain Kidd was arrested in Boston the mine was flooded for the protection of many terrified perpetrators involved in the great clandestine project. Captain Kidd had to refuse to except a plea bargain deal that would have saved him, he kept silent in order to protect his family domiciled in New York from reprisals.

Oak Island Sage

 

[SSR]

How can anyone objectively assail another's imagination objectively? An imagination cannot be subdued with facts since the game is to create imaginary threads and linkages between those. If links were not imagined, they would be facts which could be vetted. Objectively, we can never know. What's passed is past. No one who lived who knew still lives to bear witness to facts about events that are imagined to have transpired. To know is to want to sell his soul to a devil who hides in a bottomless pit of details and tidbits.

 

[leslie(nova scotia)]

When concluding otherwise would be most inconvenient!

I hold that there’s an important Oak Island anomaly that should be considered objectively, and assessed in similar fashion, rather than starting out with the answer that people want to hear and believe.

I’m constantly being told that I’m wrong about a particular suggestion and would like to get the matter fully out into the open and discussed, with people declaring where they stand on the subject and why.

In his book, Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island, Harold Wilkins not only presents the two contentious Wilkins-Kidd (Mar Del) maps but also includes the outline of another 'treasure’ island that he refers to as 'John S’s Rough Map' (1934, p.345, UK edition; 1937, p.383, US edition)

View attachment 2240488

Wilkins claims not to know its identity and asks his readers, “where is this treasure island?” I suggest that the outline has every appearance of being Oak Island as depicted by the cartographer J.F.W. Des Barres in his collection of charts including Nova Scotia The Atlantic Neptune (1775), under the name of Gloucester Isle. For easier comparison, I've slightly reduced the y axis of the Rough Map as below:

View attachment 2240489

Note well the ‘bulb’ at the eastern extremity of both outlines and the common ‘inlet’ or ‘cove’ at the northwest. Note also the two apparent ‘rivers’ depicted in virtually the same locations, these potentially being positioned at the gaps in the tree line created by the ancient roadway. We know that Gloucester Isle is definitely Oak Island and we know that the island has no water courses where indicated. So, what else might they be?

I’ve been told that this cannot possibly be Oak Island because of the orientation (the compass rose on the original) and because the island doesn’t have a lagoon at northwest, which completely ignores the possibility of misguided elaboration or subterfuge (thus, as above, remove these and then do the comparison).

When I’ve suggested that the two interior crosses might be positioned to represent a portion of Nolan’s Cross (perhaps Cone A and the Head Stone?) I’ve been told that this cannot be because Nolan’s Cross is a fake. However, this is something we don’t know for a fact. The Rough Map was drawn pre-1934, well before Nolan’s Cross was discovered, so this would mean that somebody had prior knowledge of the Cross and wanted to draw attention to it.

Some do observe that Gloucester Isle isn’t precisely like Oak Island, so a rough copy of it wouldn’t be either. I generally find that those who vehemently deny that the map could even remotely be Oak Island are those who are simply not prepared to contemplate the possibility due to the inconvenient implications of this being so.

What do you think? Could John S’s Rough Map possibly be a representation of Oak Island? Please try to be objective and support your conclusions, specifically if negative, with observations that everyone can check out and assess for themselves.

Had ancient coins I found here in Nova Scotia on that show. Dug there in the 70's with the oldest coins found were Vickies.

 

[freeman]

 

[mtdoramike]

I think it's a shame that some group hasn't stepped in and said enough is enough and put a stop to all this drilling and digging on Oak Island, which has been allowed basically unfettered for over two centuries without a speck of proof of any treasure other than speculation. So the question should be "When will Oak Island become unrecognizable as Oak Island"?

 

[Carl-NC]

I think it's a shame that some group hasn't stepped in and said enough is enough and put a stop to all this drilling and digging on Oak Island, which has been allowed basically unfettered for over two centuries without a speck of proof of any treasure other than speculation. So the question should be "When will Oak Island become unrecognizable as Oak Island"?

I see in another forum that the Filipino government is putting a stop to rampant treasure hunting in the Philippines. You would think that "nothing ever being found" would put a stop to it but, there at least, poverty and imagination are powerful drivers. In the case of OI, it's now purely driven by TV revenue; I can't imagine anyone involved still believes there's a treasure. Nova Scotia should declare OI to be an historical site and be done with it all.

 

[n2mini]

As long as the show is on it will bring in tourist to the local community. Once the show ends it will all dry up in a handful of years...

 

[mtdoramike]

As long as the show is on it will bring in tourist to the local community. Once the show ends it will all dry up in a handful of years...

No, there will always be fools who want to believe a good treasure story. So 100 years from now, there will still be some fools digging on Oak Island until it sinks below the waves from all the drilling and digging.

 

[Armchair detective]

. So the question should be "When will Oak Island become unrecognizable as Oak Island"?

I take your point, but with all the holes and drilling equipment laying around, it's obvious that THIS is Oak Island.

 

[GravelTeeth]

Nova Scotia should declare OI to be an historical site and be done with it all.

The Mug & Anchor will fight you on that.

--GT

 

[Oak Island Sage]

I think it's a shame that some group hasn't stepped in and said enough is enough and put a stop to all this drilling and digging on Oak Island, which has been allowed basically unfettered for over two centuries without a speck of proof of any treasure other than speculation. So the question should be "When will Oak Island become unrecognizable as Oak Island"?

Hi mtdoramike, You make some good points but maybe you should also think of it this way, if you had a goose that laid golden eggs would you cook and eat it if it didn't shape up and deliver the goods when you wanted it to.
Everyone wants the treasure found but lets just consider what would happen it the searchers found and recovered it, nobody would say the great going guys but look at all the mess you've made. 😆
The triangular pond (reservoir) has been destroyed, and after all the ground work that has been done in the wet weather the whole mid section valley is three fourths flooded. The Money Pit area has mores holes in it than ten golf courses, but all that does not matter because the end justifies the means. The bottom line is this, if the treasure is found the whole of Canada will definitely benefit probably by displaying it for several years, as in the touring (pay to view) Tutankhamun exhibitions.
The searchers next big task will probably be to get an export licence, and good luck on that guys. Providing the searchers continue to stick to the rules they will be given some slack to disrupt the island, and they will make profit from the recovery. In my view Province and mainland Canada will be in no hurry to loose their potential on going source of revenue.

Oak Island Sage