Oak Island Treasure Revelations

[cudamark]

It seems to me that if they truly found the flood tunnels, they could just follow them to the money pit, right? Why all this hit and miss drilling?

 

[GravelTeeth]

It seems to me that if they truly found the flood tunnels, they could just follow them to the money pit, right? Why all this hit and miss drilling?

Later news reports have it that from the first discovery of the drains at Smith's Cove, attempts to follow the tunnel back inland (beyond the convergence point 5>1) were thwarted by the earth around it being saturated. Even if the subterranean tunnel, or "ditch" as one paper called it, was large enough to accommodate a person (exit point in Money Pit, found later, supposedly ~ 2' x 4'), their attempts to block incoming tidewater via a cofferdam failed, so manual tracing from inside would have been impossible.

Subsequent expedition attempts to intersect the tunnel on its supposed straight line path met with varying degrees of failure, raising the possibility of a non-straight heading and/or subterranean reservoirs that defied their depth and gradient calculations.

In the modern age, most of the components of the drain system and convergence point have been lost to searcher destruction, and the precise locations are unknown.

--GT

 

[chalkoutline]

am not discounting the claim that red dye was seen at Smith’s Cove and South Shore; due to the speed which the red dye was able to reach both shores,

More on the Red dye test...
Yes, a flooded vertical shaft 465 feet from the shore could potentially have its contents drawn to the shoreline during low tide, depending on the geological connectivity between the shaft and the sea.
In coastal, geological, subterranean shafts are frequently connected to the ocean via underground fissures, porous rock, or abandoned tunnels.

Based on the mechanics of coastal tidal systems, if red dye (such as Rhodamine WT) is poured into a flooded shaft 465 feet from the shore at high tide, it will generally be drawn toward the shoreline as the tide recedes, typically appearing within 1 to 3 hours

This is the best explanation for red dye on the Oak Island shores because the speed as to when it shows up is constant with the reports.

The time for the red dye to diffuse down the the MP then up through the alleged 465ft flood tunnel to Smith's Cove would be days and so diluted by the time it reached the shore it wouldn't be noticed.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

1. Estimated Labor Force
To build the shafts, flood tunnels, and the "Access Tunnel" shown in your diagram, an estimated crew of 25 to 40 men would be needed, working in specialized shifts:

• Hewers (Diggers): 6–9 men. Typically worked in "pairs" (one to dig/drill, one to clear) in 8-hour shifts (called "cores") to keep the work moving 24/7.
• Haulers & Windlass Operators: 10–15 men. Required to haul tons of "spoil" (dirt and rock) to the surface using manual wooden winches.
• Timbermen & Masons: 4–6 men. Essential for shoring up the tunnels with oak platforms and stone lining to prevent collapse.
• Surface Support: 5–10 men. To manage the camp, forge tools, and handle the "back-filled earth" and "sand sumps" mentioned in the diagram.
  CIM Magazine +3

2. Construction Timeline
Historical records for "old men" tunnels (approx. 2'4" x 4') suggest an advance rate of roughly 1 to 3 feet per day in soft clay/till, but significantly less if they hit the hard limestone or anhydrite common to Oak Island.

[th]
Section of System

[/th][th]
Estimated Length

[/th][th]
Estimated Time to Complete

[/th]​

[td]Main Money Pit (100'+)[/td][td]100+ feet deep[/td][td]4–6 Months (including platform installation every 10 feet).[/td] [td]Flood Tunnels (from Smith's Cove)[/td][td]~500 feet[/td][td]8–12 Months (depending on tidal interference and soil stability).[/td] [td]The Access Tunnel[/td][td]~460 feet[/td][td]6–9 Months of continuous digging.[/td] [td]Loading Shafts & Sumps[/td][td]Multiple 50'+ shafts[/td][td]3–5 Months of secondary excavation.[/td]

Total Estimated Duration: 2 to 3 years of continuous, covert operation.



3. The Logistical Challenge

• Secrecy: Keeping 40 men on a small island for two years without drawing the attention of local Mi'kmaq or passing colonial ships would have been the hardest part. This supports the theory that the "builders" were a well-funded privateer or military syndicate.
• The "Spoil" Problem: Excavating these tunnels would produce roughly 2,000 to 3,000 tons of debris. The designers would have had to hide this "tailing" (perhaps in the swamp) to keep the island looking undisturbed from the sea.

Hi pepperJ, you have given this a lot of thought to my CAD and the feasibility of my own theories and that is absolutely fine, but in your calculations you seem not to have considered a few things. I will concede that it might take 40 men two years to finish (on their own) the complete subterranean network of shaft and tunnels, as shown in the CAD. What I am suggesting to you is different a different scenario, that all the work above and below ground commenced at the same time. A lot more people were involved than what have you have based your theory on. None of us can know for certain how long it took to dig the money Pit but the possibility that other shafts across the island were also being constructed at the same time changes everything, and it it were true then your calculations might have to be reviewed wouldn't you agree.
1/ The debris from the shafts would have been be dumped in the sea, or some possibly at Isaacs Point to create a man made barrier against waves damaging the filter drains nearby in Smiths Cove.
2/ The perpetrators probably traded with the Mic Mac's for fresh meat.
3/ The island was deliberately kept looking uninhabited, but no large ship would dare to sail any where in Mahone Bay, that's because of the many dangerous hidden sand bars there, if it struck one it would founder in minutes, there are hundreds of ship wrecks around Nova Scotia.
2/ The Cornish pick discovered in the Money Pit strongly suggest that Cornish Miners were involved. If that is true these tough little men were famous for their mining skill and achievements. You suggest that they dug a (two feet wide by four foot high) tunnel at a rate of two to three feet in a period of twenty fours, I don't think so, with these guys it was more like ten to fifteen feet a every twenty four hours, when they were digging tunnels, Oak Island was a walk in the park for those guys. It would have a round the clock covert operation with supplies constantly arriving in shallow drafted fishing boats from the secret cartel of wealthy backers domiciled in the Colonies.
To reiterate if anyone wishes to form a theory they have to consider that time was of the essence, to feed a large work force of over a hundred would take money so the most expedient method was for (as much as possible) the work had to be done simultaneously. I have to say that Henry Every was formally a commissioned slaver, he was known to have purchased slaves before his disappearance so in my view he took some to work on the surface of Oak Island.

Oak Island Sage

 

[releventchair]

Such flagrant speculation is exceeded only by your greater speculation.

 

[pepperj]

Hi pepperJ, you have given this a lot of thought to my CAD and the feasibility of my own theories and that is absolutely fine, but in your calculations you seem not to have considered a few things. I will concede that it might take 40 men two years to finish (on their own) the complete subterranean network of shaft and tunnels, as shown in the CAD. What I am suggesting to you is different a different scenario, that all the work above and below ground commenced at the same time. A lot more people were involved than what have you have based your theory on. None of us can know for certain how long it took to dig the money Pit but the possibility that other shafts across the island were also being constructed at the same time changes everything, and it it were true then your calculations might have to be reviewed wouldn't you agree.
1/ The debris from the shafts would have been be dumped in the sea, or some possibly at Isaacs Point to create a man made barrier against waves damaging the filter drains nearby in Smiths Cove.
2/ The perpetrators probably traded with the Mic Mac's for fresh meat.
3/ The island was deliberately kept looking uninhabited, but no large ship would dare to sail any where in Mahone Bay, that's because of the many dangerous hidden sand bars there, if it struck one it would founder in minutes, there are hundreds of ship wrecks around Nova Scotia.
2/ The Cornish pick discovered in the Money Pit strongly suggest that Cornish Miners were involved. If that is true these tough little men were famous for their mining skill and achievements. You suggest that they dug a (two feet wide by four foot high) tunnel at a rate of two to three feet in a period of twenty fours, I don't think so, with these guys it was more like ten to fifteen feet a every twenty four hours, when they were digging tunnels, Oak Island was a walk in the park for those guys. It would have a round the clock covert operation with supplies constantly arriving in shallow drafted fishing boats from the secret cartel of wealthy backers domiciled in the Colonies.
To reiterate if anyone wishes to form a theory they have to consider that time was of the essence, to feed a large work force of over a hundred would take money so the most expedient method was for (as much as possible) the work had to be done simultaneously. I have to say that Henry Every was formally a commissioned slaver, he was known to have purchased slaves before his disappearance so in my view he took some to work on the surface of Oak Island.

Oak Island Sage

Cut paste ask=under 60 seconds. Copy paste another 15 seconds.
Lots of thought went into it-not. I add probably add that was many seconds actually spent.

Actually I was asked if your diagram of the system was viable, and where did it actually come from?
It seems it was really from the Cornish tunnel systems that was tweaked to suite the narrative .


But what begs the question all this digging for all this time was never recorded in history of any east coast history book.
Folks had nothing better to do than to watch the going on of what happened in the world around them.
To keep this all under wraps is on the level of fairy dust, and all that great stuff.

Selling a book of fables is viable source of income, but to try to cross the line into reality is another thing.

 

[releventchair]

Cut paste ask=under 60 seconds. Copy paste another 15 seconds.
Lots of thought went into it-not. I add probably add that was many seconds actually spent.

Actually I was asked if your diagram of the system was viable, and where did it actually come from?
It seems it was really from the Cornish tunnel systems that was tweaked to suite the narrative .


But what begs the question all this digging for all this time was never recorded in history of any east coast history book.
Folks had nothing better to do than to watch the going on of what happened in the world around them.
To keep this all under wraps is on the level of fairy dust, and all that great stuff.

Selling a book of fables is viable source of income, but to try to cross the line into reality is another thing.

Hey ,remember those guys we didn't kill that dug on our island for years until they ran out of things to trade for fish while we slept on top of enough acorn flour and maple sugar buried two feet deep to last for five years?

 

[chalkoutline]

am not discounting the claim that red dye was seen at Smith’s Cove and South Shore; due to the speed which the red dye was able to reach both shores,

More on the Red dye test...
Yes, a flooded vertical shaft 465 feet from the shore could potentially have its contents drawn to the shoreline during low tide, depending on the geological connectivity between the shaft and the sea.
In coastal, geological, subterranean shafts are frequently connected to the ocean via underground fissures, porous rock, or abandoned tunnels.

Based on the mechanics of coastal tidal

with these guys it was more like ten to fifteen feet a every twenty four hours,

I think you overlooked the fundamental requirement for digging shafts and tunnels without cribbing and that is it must be done during the dry season. This means the clayish till will be hard, dry and compact. Google AI indicates under these soil conditions, only 1 to 2ft can be dug in a 10 to 12 hour day.
If the party arrives in May, im assuming there would need to be some planning/surveying that must take place before the 4 vertical shafts could be started at south shore but i would expect the horizontal tunnels under the Atlantic could begin in June.
Note: im still assuming the 300 ft tunnels are being dug even though the air bubbles didn't come from these tunnels.

By the end of August, they would have dug about 175 to 200 feet of the four 300ft tunnels through hard compact till.
The next 100 to 125ft would go faster either due to rain or getting near the sea floor making the till softer and easier to dig.
This still means the tunnels would not be completed until October and subject to collapse since that would be in the rainy season.

Conclusion: its not the person who determines the dig rate but the soil/till.

I have heard your counter arguments by increasing work force and working 24hrs which are valid; however. That speculation must also include collapses, equipment failure illnesses, workforce reassignments, unexpected weather,etc. as well. You can't just assume everything will go as planned.

As i have stated before, i do not believe the tunnel system you've developed could hve been dug and sealed in a single dry sean on oak island.

 

[cudamark]

Later news reports have it that from the first discovery of the drains at Smith's Cove, attempts to follow the tunnel back inland (beyond the convergence point 5>1) were thwarted by the earth around it being saturated. Even if the subterranean tunnel, or "ditch" as one paper called it, was large enough to accommodate a person (exit point in Money Pit, found later, supposedly ~ 2' x 4'), their attempts to block incoming tidewater via a cofferdam failed, so manual tracing from inside would have been impossible.

Subsequent expedition attempts to intersect the tunnel on its supposed straight line path met with varying degrees of failure, raising the possibility of a non-straight heading and/or subterranean reservoirs that defied their depth and gradient calculations.

In the modern age, most of the components of the drain system and convergence point have been lost to searcher destruction, and the precise locations are unknown.

--GT

If that's true using modern methods and state of the art equipment, how in the world were the flood tunnels made by hand hundreds of years ago? None of this makes any sense to me. Thank goodness I can record the program and not watch it "Live". I can fast forward past all the constant repetition of past episodes and just watch the new rusty spike or wooden post they find! I can get through the show now in 10-15 minutes.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Cut paste ask=under 60 seconds. Copy paste another 15 seconds.
Lots of thought went into it-not. I add probably add that was many seconds actually spent.

Actually I was asked if your diagram of the system was viable, and where did it actually come from?
It seems it was really from the Cornish tunnel systems that was tweaked to suite the narrative .


But what begs the question all this digging for all this time was never recorded in history of any east coast history book.
Folks had nothing better to do than to watch the going on of what happened in the world around them.
To keep this all under wraps is on the level of fairy dust, and all that great stuff.

Selling a book of fables is viable source of income, but to try to cross the line into reality is another thing.

If you think that my CAD is based on Cornish tunnel systems that were tweaked to suit the narrative then far be it for me to disillusion you.

Oak Island Sage

 

[n2mini]

Keep in mind not every event in history was documented. If it were we wouldn't wonder how the pyramids were built, Stonehenge, etc.. At times no one lived on OI. Can't say for sure but I'd guess that 300-1000 years ago not many people lived on the mainland near the shore with a view what what was or wasn't happening on OI either... So who was going to document it if no one around. The average home owner near there( if there was any ) even if they saw men digging who were they going to tell and why bother.. 100's and or 1000's of years ago people weren't as concerned with what their neighbor was doing as we are now.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Keep in mind not every event in history was documented. If it were we wouldn't wonder how the pyramids were built, Stonehenge, etc.. At times no one lived on OI. Can't say for sure but I'd guess that 300-1000 years ago not many people lived on the mainland near the shore with a view what what was or wasn't happening on OI either... So who was going to document it if no one around. The average home owner near there( if there was any ) even if they saw men digging who were they going to tell and why bother.. 100's and or 1000's of years ago people weren't as concerned with what their neighbor was doing as we are now.

Hi n2mini, Let's say hypothetically that I am correct in my story that the covert mining operation was constructed on Oak Island. Actually excavating a mine was not illegal. However this unique one had to be kept top secret, that's because it's clever purposed was to store and then melt down and convert miscellaneous items of captured treasure into gold and silver coinage or bars.

The exposure of that clandestine operation would be disastrous, it would send many wealthy investors in the Colonies involved in the secret cartel to the gallows. There would be no records of this illicit activity kept by anyone, certainly not by the perpetrators, they actually distanced themselves and flooded the mine for self protection when danger threatened.

The treasure is still down in the undersea level protected repository just as it was once abandoned in abject panic. Ironically the only people who knew that (and were involved in some way) wanted no part of it ever again, simply because if they were exposed they'd hang for certain.

Oak Island Sage

 

[pepperj]

Keep in mind not every event in history was documented. If it were we wouldn't wonder how the pyramids were built, Stonehenge, etc.. At times no one lived on OI. Can't say for sure but I'd guess that 300-1000 years ago not many people lived on the mainland near the shore with a view what what was or wasn't happening on OI either... So who was going to document it if no one around. The average home owner near there( if there was any ) even if they saw men digging who were they going to tell and why bother.. 100's and or 1000's of years ago people weren't as concerned with what their neighbor was doing as we are now.

You must be from a generation of urban dwelling living with that train of thought.
Geez growing up the moccasin telegraph was a sure thing. Anything that happened within a 20 mile radius was well known and talked about by nearly everyone.
Today the world looks at a screen if it didn't happen on the screen then it didn't exist in their minds.

 

[chalkoutline]

The average home owner near there( if there was any ) even if they saw men digging who were they going to tell and why bother..

According to pepperj, the work force was 40 men. According to OI Sage it was significantly more and took 2 to 3 years to dig the network.
Typically there were 25 to 30 men on a 1600/1700 sailing ship so the question isn't whether some one saw them digging the shafts and tunnels but how could anyone miss 2 or 3 ships sitting 200 to 300ft of the coast of oak island.

My question is...what did they do with the ship(s) during the winter?
Did they stay moored off shore or did they leave and come back in the Spring?
Im curious to know...

 

[n2mini]

You must be from a generation of urban dwelling living with that train of thought.
Geez growing up the moccasin telegraph was a sure thing. Anything that happened within a 20 mile radius was well known and talked about by nearly everyone.
Today the world looks at a screen if it didn't happen on the screen then it didn't exist in their minds.

Even if people were talking about it and they probably were, doesn't mean there was a newspaper reporter or a historian around to document it all and maybe they did and it got lost over the years. No different then most of the stories about OI from 1775 on didn't get wrote about that has been found apparently till 1830-1850's. I too find it hard to believe the 3 boys did their digging and of course didn't tell anyone till they gave up, yet the Onlsow company came in some years later but there aren't documented stories about it till many years later.. So the 3 boys did talk about it enough to get others to form the Onslow Company. I believe people did know at times something was going on, but for whatever reason there aren't time dated stories about it till years later for whatever reason... That is why I say everything that happens isn't always documented.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

According to pepperj, the work force was 40 men. According to OI Sage it was significantly more and took 2 to 3 years to dig the network.
Typically there were 25 to 30 men on a 1600/1700 sailing ship so the question isn't whether some one saw them digging the shafts and tunnels but how could anyone miss 2 or 3 ships sitting 200 to 300ft of the coast of oak island.

My question is...what did they do with the ship(s) during the winter?
Did they stay moored off shore or did they leave and come back in the Spring?
Im curious to know...

Most passing ships out at sea stayed out of the entrance to Mahone Bay because of the great risk of hitting dangerous sands shoals and sinking, hundreds of shipwrecks litter the coast of Nova Scotia.
Those vessels bringing treasure or supplies knew a safe route taking constant soundings, or were possibly piloted to the island. All the ships only stayed only long enough to unload or load their cargo. Those who were working on the island were left alone without any anchored ship waiting nearby because the island had to constantly look uninhabited, and everyone had to stay on Oak Island until the completion of the project.
Over a short period of time the work force of my estimated 150 people gradually arrived in separate vessels which did not stay around very long. Separate tunnelling groups (Cornish miners) worked simultaneously, but those labouring on the surface were kept confined in separate groups just working in different areas on a need to know basis.
It has to be considered that if wretched African slaves were brought to labour on the surface of Oak Island they would not speak English or even know were they were so they could never pose a threat. When they were no longer required those poor people would have been taken to South America and sold to work on cotton plantations.
When the work was completed the miners (and the crew members working in different places) would have been well paid in newly minted coins to go where they wanted. Only a small armed force would remain camped on the island, eventually when serious danger threatened they were ordered to light the fuses in order to close down the mine indefinitely. When all traces of human activity were finally removed from the surface of Oak Island they too would then scatter by inconspicuous shallow drafted fishing boats and then to keep a very low profile.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Cryptid, you can not post links to websites selling members merchandise, I have also warned In past about insulting members, saying a member lacks integrity is an insult.

On your return please read and follow our rules.

Thank you.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Having only watched a few episodes. Does anybody else get extremely annoyed when Gary reaches in with a closed hand and produces a cleaned dry recovery? It’s SO OBVIOUS that they are recreating a find with the tooo cleanly dressed financier Rick present at the time of the find, it’s stomach turning. Can any die hard watchers admit this or does that shatter the reality?

 

[n2mini]

I can't speak for anyone else but I know that at the end of the day it is a TV show and stuff is filmed as such, and as with any other tv show mulitiple "takes" are filmed to get it right, people in place etc. Do you really want to watch an hour long show of Gary roaming a lot with 2 or 3 people following him and of course the camera person, detecting and then not find anything to dig up. Then next week move on to another lot. Talk about boring, for us and the guys following him around. To me the most boring job there is the few guys who stand under the canopy waiting for the sleeve of dirt to come over from the drill hole every 10' or so and they show some of that luckily not alot and normally nothing is ever found yet there is sometimes 3-4 people watching that. Imagine doing that all summer. Granted if I'm making 100,000 per episode I COULD handle that..

 

[SSR]

OI is a fable retold anew for each generation of 12 year olds who are attracted to it with wonder in their eyes. The men who have been attracted to it are child-like in their thinking, and the great commonality in their make up is that they are magical thinkers. These are the same attributes found in writers of historical fictions. There is wide ranging demographic of magical thinkers whose currency is pure imagination. With imagination alone you can create meaning for what has none. Men's lives can be given meaning who would otherwise choose to die. The truth is simply not enough form them to decide "to be" as opposed "to not be".

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.

What lives, and the OI fable lives, lives because men choose to live and dream rather than suffer and be pushed towards a death wish. This is the crutch that many have discovered. "I have an imagination, so let me make the world into what it is not which can inspire me, and others, to live with illusions of hope". The shittier the world gets the more escapism is in demand. The quest for the grail is a quest for meaning. What "could it be"? Anything. Chase the wild goose until it is time to sleep. It is a game of follower-the-leader. The rats will follow the pied piper.