200 yrs old? Pirate? Native? Or religious? Any hidden meaning? Treasure map?

[Joecoins]

Hello,
I have something real special,
Purchased at a fleamarket in quebec.
It was literaly tangled with a bunch of stuff and i had to cut some other peices to get it loose from the pile.

I need help finding out its purpose and significance.
Please take a look at the photos ,its worth it!
I included a photo with important notes i have made on the peice.
Thanks in advance.
!!!!New and better photos, Beads page 8, Coins pg9.!!!!!
New photos again! Page 11

 

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[Joecoins]

it is brass, not gold, not silver and thus not inca

Inca bronze therez alot bout it ....

 

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[Joecoins]

A few navajo bronze?

The second photo states:
Unkown navajo pueblo artist,cross and dragonfly necklace,1880, coin, silver, brass, and beads, 33 cm...


Those brass look similar

 

[Joecoins]

McKee Platero Navajo Indian Brass necklace

A link to a new peice with some good info, very similar

 

[can]

you are getting close to what you have. i would do what others have suggested...take it to a university for an opinion.

 

[relic lover]

I haven't seen where you got the metal checked, which post was it?

It's in like the first or second post no definitive results , method unknown

 

[relic lover]

Why do you think it is french?

The only medallions I could find that even closely resembled it were French 1600 fur trade era

 

[Peyton Manning]

It's in like the first or second post no definitive results , method unknown

all that said was he was told it isn't gold, but still hoped it was.

I would think that knowing the metals would help determine it's origin

 

[releventchair]

The only medallions I could find that even closely resembled it were French 1600 fur trade era

Same here yesterday. They were bronze.

 

[relic lover]

I think the three circles on the heart might represent chain. Here is a French piece from the 1600s. The chain could be worn off leaving the circles in the middle Maybe

 

[laidback4sho]

I think the three circles on the heart might represent chain. Here is a French piece from the 1600s. Who is Shane could be worn off leaving the circles in the middle Maybe

DNA, perhaps?

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[Joecoins]

 

[Joecoins]

I do feel i am getting close, i now see navajo, inca, and fur trade elements in this peice.

 

[Joecoins]

all that said was he was told it isn't gold, but still hoped it was.

I would think that knowing the metals would help determine it's origin

Ok.. Certainly it would be a great help to know the exact composition of the metal. The jewler is unable to determine the percentages of copper ,tin, etc.... He cant tell me what type of brass or bronze or if it has low amounts of gold or silver.

The jewler only tested 10k ,
9k, 8k, 6&5k jewlery exists! (German old birtish)

Perhaps they werent selective in the purity of the metals if native made and i have a unique mix

 

[Robot]

"Just My Two Bits"...Or Two Cents... Or Two Coins Worth...Or For What Its Worth!

Many American Loyalist during the American Revolutionary War moved North to where you may have found this article.

It may be a "Charm Coin Necklace" from the 1776?

Some of these coins may be:

1776 Liberty Bell



1792 Flowing Hair Half Disme (Drawn Picture) or maybe even rarer the 1772 Half Disme?



A while back on Treasure Net Forum, a member found something similar, If it is, you may be a very rich man as only 1500 were produced and Thomas Jefferson gave them out to VIP's.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/my-best-finds/29328-1792-half-disme.html

 

[Joecoins]

Amsome! Thanks a bunch, great info and very interesting, that coin would be awsome i will have to check more details,

 

[on.off]

i wonder why that one coin is so much more worn than the others. if this was made around the time the coins were made, it seems like the wear should be more consistent. additionally, the hole in "the fourth coin" looks larger and much more worn. i would conclude either that if the necklace was made c. late 18th/early 19th century (it couldn't have been made before 1795), the fourth coin was much older at the time and had already been drilled and used for some years on something else (although it does seem to resemble those 1790s half dimes), or that the necklace was made at a later time with old coins with varying degrees of wear. also would they have used 3 real coins and a fourth, completely different coin? not questioning authenticity, just wondering.

are you able to examine the holes in each real coin to see if they are fairly similar as far as wear and size?

the wear and patina on the 3 real coins seems somewhat inconsistent as well, though that could be for various reasons. if the coins protrude or stand when this is worn (instead of lying flat on a garment or skin), it seems like there would not have been so much wear or at least it should be even.

the circles surrounding the "heart" thing on the pendant are regular and made with a stamping tool. if you can find other pieces with the same stamping, you might be one step closer in tracing its history (presumably a new punch was not created exclusively for this one pendant).

are all the beads heavy/thick/chunky metal or light/thin?

there are two types of the cross shaped beads. as you can see in the picture i have attached, one has an additional ring or rib on its arms. this is just an observation and possibly a meaningless one.

there seems to be noticeable inconsistency in the wear on the beads--some beads of similar design directly next to each other are worn to very different degrees.

i feel fairly certain the beads and pendant are brass.

i see several apparent construction techniques used here, including casting, engraving, stamping, and possibly more.

all of these are just my observations. i usually err on the side of skepticism. for some reason this looks to me like a later or homemade piece constructed using some antique pieces.

 

[Joecoins]

Hi, thank you -on.off- for your great observations
I have not noticed the difference in the crosses.
Indeed actualy all 3 crosses are different.
The 3rd cross only having 1 top and bottom step.

3/4 of the beads are all large and chunky(all beads from top silver coins down), 1/4 are thin, and very precisely round, but even theses small ones have alot of variation in size, size of bevel and rim and carvings, some also looke alot more copperish, these small bead are all in the section of the necklace between coins 2 &3 , in the back of the neck area, but there is also some small chunky beads mixed in this area with the thin ones.

One of the 2 real coins had similar wear around the hole , the other two not as much, perhap as yousaid coins are obviously older than the date of construction.
They do pop put when worn, they dont lay flat,
Im geusing the unreadable coin is older aroun 1770's , and perhaps it was more prone to wear beacuse of its silver composition or the pressure of the die press when made.
I did also beleive those seven segment circle marks to be all of the same tool. I have yet to see the tool marks anywhere else in jewelry, in native culture it could be part of a medecine wheel?
I beleive the medalion is the oldest part and is a fur trade item, manly because of the heart .
I beleive beads and necklace were made and assembled between 1795-1860. Prolly closer to 1820-1860.
Made using found brass from pots and pans lime the hudson bay ones, and the thin beads from my research bullet casings?? Pre 1860 because after that it would have been silver they worked with,
I beleive it was assembled by south american natives ,navajo or zuni, they were early jewelrs and the heart is prominent in their jewelry and they are most likely to have had the spanish silver coins.
Too me the patina is the exact same on both the 2 real coins , and the patina likes just as old on the other two, variatons atributable to size and position of coin for the 1773 1 real.
Was a half disme bigger then a 1 real coin? The unidentified coin is only slighty smaller than the 2 real coins and much bigger than the 1 real coin. Certanly its silver, mabe a colonial silver token, bitish or french silver?

 

[Joecoins]

Photos

 

[cw0909]

have you searched for lost wax brass beads or"lost wax cast brass bicone beads"
maybe the beads came over early 1800s loose or as something else, and were
refashioned to what you have now

some beads
https://www.etsy.com/market/brass_bicone_beads

forgot 2 links
http://www.uniqueafricanarts.com/store/african-handmade-bicone-ethiopian-brass-beads-p-2757.html
http://beadparadise.com/item/Set-of-Antique-Solid-Brass-Cast-Bicone-Beads/5098

 

[Joecoins]

have you searched for lost wax brass beads or"lost wax cast brass bicone beads"
maybe the beads came over early 1800s loose or as something else, and were
refashioned to what you have now

some beads
https://www.etsy.com/market/brass_bicone_beads

forgot 2 links
African handmade Bicone Ethiopian Brass beads, Unique African Arts
Bead Paradise - African Trade Beads - Set of Antique Solid Brass Cast Bicone Beads

My beads are not bicone,
Most of my beads have visible seam marks, so pretty certain they are not cast.
Perhaps they came from overseas along time ago,personaly i doubt it, still havent seen any beads that compare,
All of the beads in your link look like junk compared to mine. my beads far exceed all of them in quality and work. No offence