Am I going crazy?

[GoDeep]

Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at John Hopkins School of Medicine, during an appearance on The Vince Coglianese Show, said individuals formerly infected with COVID-19 are seven times more likely then vaccinated people to fight off the virus.

?It appears that natural immunity is better against the Delta variant. When you get infected with COVID, your body?s immune system develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus,? Makary said. ?Not just the slight protein that the vaccines gives you, but the entire surface. And so you get a more diverse antibody portfolio in your system.?

Makary said data from Israel revealed that natural immunity appears to be 6.7x more effective than being vaccinated when it comes to fighting off COVID-19.

?One of the great failures of our medical leadership has been ignoring the half of America with natural immunity, which is the half of non-vaccinated folks.?

Hmm. Never mentioned on Main stream media.

How many... it is said to be 100 million +... Have this immunity? Never mentioned. it would change the Covid statistics for sure.

Plasma from donors who have recovered from COVID-19 may contain antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 that may help suppress the virus and modify the inflammatory response. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for convalescent plasma for the treatment of certain hospitalized patients with COVID-19.

No way!!!! Proof?

So the vaccine mandates (New York City) and multiple company's mandates, seem irrelevant. Especially to the 1/3 of the "unvaccinated" that are deemed ineligible.

Again never a talking point.

This is misleading in that there is a huge caveat to natural immunity: most don't have natural immunity and hence why 98 percent of deaths from Covid are now the unvaccinated. Sure, those who previously had covid and survived, have some great natural anti bodies built up, that's nature for you.

So the reason it isn't a "talking point" and "never mentioned by the main stream media" is best summed up by Dr. Marty Makary's own words: " Same take-home message though: If you're not immune, get immune by getting vaxed."

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

So you are willing to put other in danger who are not able to get the vaccine? Yet you expect others not to be a danger to everyone else.....how does that work?

I am saying if you're worried about the virus get the vaccine, if masks work then someone not vaccinated wears a masks it doesn't matter if a healthy vaccinated person is wearing a mask. You are ignoring the fact unvaccinated people put far more people in danger than an unmasked vaccinated person.


Less than 1% of people vaccinated have break through infections.

"Less than 1% of fully vaccinated people experienced a breakthrough infection, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation analysis of official state data."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1275500


"According to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 0.004% of people who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 experienced a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization, and less than 0.001% have died from the disease. That?s about 6,600 severe breakthrough cases out of more than 163 million fully vaccinated people.

But the KFF analysis shows that breakthrough infections of any kind are also extremely rare."

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-new...s-08-02-21/h_4258aa07cbf2206435b5f84328ddab33

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

"With more than 156 million Americans fully vaccinated, nationwide, approximately 153,000 symptomatic breakthrough cases are estimated to have occurred as of last week, representing approximately 0.098% of those fully vaccinated, according to an unpublished internal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention document obtained by ABC News."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnew...19-infections-rare-cdc-data/story?id=79048589

 

[Tpmetal]

I am saying if you're worried about the virus get the vaccine, if masks work then someone not vaccinated wears a masks it doesn't matter if a healthy vaccinated person is wearing a mask. You are ignoring the fact unvaccinated people put far more people in danger than an unmasked vaccinated person.


Less than 1% of people vaccinated have break through infections.

"Less than 1% of fully vaccinated people experienced a breakthrough infection, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation analysis of official state data."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1275500


"According to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 0.004% of people who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 experienced a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization, and less than 0.001% have died from the disease. That?s about 6,600 severe breakthrough cases out of more than 163 million fully vaccinated people.

But the KFF analysis shows that breakthrough infections of any kind are also extremely rare."

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-new...s-08-02-21/h_4258aa07cbf2206435b5f84328ddab33

All of those stats ignore the fact that if people are not appearing sick they are not getting tested or going to the hospitol.... you seem to think its black and white when thats not the caee at all. The only way break through iinfections are being caught is if the symptoms are bad enough to put someone in the hospitol or bad enough they see fit themselves to get tested....you can't ignore stuff just because it makes you feel like you are on the morally just line of thought

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

All of those stats ignore the fact that if people are not appearing sick they are not getting tested or going to the hospitol.... you seem to think its black and white when thats not the caee at all. The only way break through iinfections are being caught is if the symptoms are bad enough to put someone in the hospitol or bad enough they see fit themselves to get tested....you can't ignore stuff just because it makes you feel like you are on the morally just line of thought

I check my temperature and oxygen levels everyday. If you watch your body you know your status. Less than 1% have breakthrough infections.


Hasn't anything to do with my "moral line", it is my freedoms.


Have you had your vaccine shots?

 

[smdog66]

I rather live my life free and die, than cower down to the establishment and live in a bubble scared to breathe or go out

 

[Phil]

Absolutely true and again, context matters. At that point, (1/21/20) no known deaths had occurred the United States (as again is the case with science, it is now believed there may have been a few deaths earlier then first thought) but this statement was made with the evidence they had and what they believed at the time to be true.

What you are leaving out, and again why i state you have a narrative, is that by March of 2020, they were raising the alarms about it and recommending masking and distancing as the dangers of it were becoming clearer and clearer.

At any rate, back to the topic at hand. Vaccinations and saving lives.

Facts my friend.

First you claim "This mask statement was made in the infancy of the pandemic when little was known about it"

Then, after I pointed out Fauci knew about the virus TWO years prior, you changed your story and said "Corona Virus has been around for decades and immunologists such as Fauci have been studying it during that time"

Then, you changed your story again and said claimed "but this statement was made with the evidence they had and what they believed at the time to be true."

And again when you said "at an even much later date when much more was known"

So which is it? Was Fauci studying the virus for years prior, and thus, he knew exactly how deadly the virus was. Or was it a new virus and little was known about it?

Facts my friend..........

 

[Phil]

What you are leaving out, and again why i state you have a narrative, is that by March of 2020, they were raising the alarms about it and recommending masking and distancing as the dangers of it were becoming clearer and clearer.

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask,"

-Dr. Fauci, March 8, 2020

 

[GoDeep]

First you claim "This mask statement was made in the infancy of the pandemic when little was known about it"

Then, after I pointed out Fauci knew about the virus TWO years prior, you changed your story and said "Corona Virus has been around for decades and immunologists such as Fauci have been studying it during that time"

Then, you changed your story again and said claimed "but this statement was made with the evidence they had and what they believed at the time to be true."

And again when you said "at an even much later date when much more was known"

So which is it? Was Fauci studying the virus for years prior, and thus, he knew exactly how deadly the virus was. Or was it a new virus and little was known about it?

Facts my friend..........

This is the most nonsensical of accusations. I haven't changed my story at all.

You need to study up a bit more on Corona Virus's, it has been around for decades, but what you fail to understand is that there have been many variants/strains of it.

So when i said, for example, the pandemic was in it's infancy and they made statements based on the evidence they had, that is a statement of fact. This was a new variant (Covid-19).

Facts is right my friend and it appears you need to study up more on Corona Virus's history so you can better understand the facts before falsely accusing others of changing their story:

https://theconversation.com/coronaviruses-a-brief-history-135506

 

[Kantuckkeean]

I check my temperature and oxygen levels everyday. If you watch your body you know your status. Less than 1% have breakthrough infections.


Hasn't anything to do with my "moral line", it is my freedoms.


Have you had your vaccine shots?

I have had my shots.

If masks were 100% effective at preventing infection, or if being fully vaccinated meant that you had no chance of transmitting the virus, then you would be right. However, there are some who would like to get the vaccine but it is not recommended because of compromised immune systems or other conditions. They have to rely on masks that are not 100% effective at preventing infection. Also, we know that vaccinated people, like you and I, can be asymptomatic and still carry and transmit the virus, perhaps to individuals who would like to get vaccinated but cannot (like the aforementioned or children under 12).

Your personal freedoms (and mine) matter, but how we choose to exercise our personal freedoms can, and does affect the health and well-being of others.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[GoDeep]

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask,"

-Dr. Fauci, March 8, 2020

Yes, March 8, and by the end of March, things rapidly changed. You sure are parsing out to fit your narrative.

March 8th 2020, known US Deaths due to Covid-19: 11.

March 31st, known US Deaths due to Covod-19: 2,398

So yes, it was a rapidly changing battlefield and by the end of the month, Masks were being recommended.

You sure are stuck on Fauci, i guess he's your boogey man. And you say you don't have a narrative....lol.

 

[Phil]

This is the most nonsensical of accusations. I haven't changed my story at all.

You need to study up a bit more on Corona Virus's, it has been around for decades, but what you fail to understand is that there have been hundreds of variants of it.

So when i said, for example, the pandemic was in it's infancy and they made statements based on the evidence they had, that is a statement of fact. This was a new variant (Covid-19) and it was unknown at that point how dangerous it could or could not be. Some variants have been as mild a the common cold.

Facts is right my friend and it appears you need to study up more on Corona Virus's history so you can better understand the facts before falsely accusing others of changing their story:

https://theconversation.com/coronaviruses-a-brief-history-135506

"Viruses tend to like cold dry weather versus warm moist weather, that is a fact but we have no idea, since this is a brand new virus"

Dr. Fauci - March 19, 2020


Fauci said it was a BRAND NEW virus...........not a "new variant".

 

[Kantuckkeean]

Back to the OP's comment...

Claypile,

I'd recommend speaking with your physician. I'm sure that he or she will most likely recommend that you get vaccinated, unless you have other health concerns. Personally, I trust the vast majority of scientists and vaccines. If I recall correctly, there have only been three fatalities known to have been caused by a vaccine, and it was due to blood clotting issues with females who had gotten the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. I felt a great deal of relief when I got vaccinated, in knowing that I would have much greater protection in the event that I became infected. Once I got vaccinated, I was much less concerned about moving about in public. I still mask up when going indoors in places like retail stores, schools, or restaurants though.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[crashbandicoot]

You guys are starting to sound like midalake.

 

[Phil]

Yes, March 8, and by the end of March, things rapidly changed. You sure are parsing out to fit your narrative.

March 8th 2020, known US Deaths due to Cronona Virus: 11.

March 31st, known US Deaths due to Corona Virus: 2,398

So yes, it was a rapidly changing battlefield and by the end of the month, Masks were being recommended.

You sure are stuck on Fauci, i guess he's your boogey man. And you say you don't have a narrative....lol.

My narrative is the same now as it was when this conversation began: "If you want to persuade somebody to get the vaccine..............Don't quote the murderers at the CDC."

And you have done an excellent job making my point on my behalf with your constantly changing facts (Just like Fauci). Fauci and the CDC have lied so many times, nobody trusts anything they say. It is why people are so concerned about the safety of the vaccine.

 

[GoDeep]

"Viruses tend to like cold dry weather versus warm moist weather, that is a fact but we have no idea, since this is a brand new virus"

Dr. Fauci - March 19, 2020


Fauci said it was a BRAND NEW virus...........not a "new variant".

Are you being purposely obtuse? You clearly didn't read the link. If you did, you'd understand what Fauci was saying. A new variant is technically a new virus. An analogy would be my son, he's a brand new person, but still a variant of me with my genetics but he is his own brand new person! New variants still share some of the old genetic code, but are new virus's onto themselves, hence why one will cause a cold and a newer variant will kill you by making you suffocate on your own fluids.

Since you aren't going to read my link, i'm going to copy and paste so we can put this misinformation to rest:

There is much more to coronaviruses than SARS-CoV-2. Coronaviruses are actually a family of hundreds of viruses. The first coronavirus was discovered in chickens in the 1930s. It was a few decades until the first human coronaviruses were identified in the 1960s.

Coronaviruses can be found all over the world and are responsible for about 10-15% of common colds, mostly during the winter. The coronaviruses that cause mild to moderate disease in humans are called: 229E, OC43, NL63 and HKU1.

The first coronaviruses discovered that are able to infect humans are 229E and OC43. Both of these viruses usually result in the common cold and rarely cause severe disease on their own. They are often detected at the same time as other respiratory infections. When several viruses, or viruses and bacteria, are found in patients this is called co-infection and can result in more severe disease.

In 2004, NL63 was detected for the first time in a baby suffering from bronchiolitis (a lower respiratory tract infection) in the Netherlands. This virus has probably been around for hundreds of years, we just hadn’t found it until then. A year later, in Hong Kong, another coronavirus was found – this time in an elderly patient with pneumonia. It was later named HKU1 and has been found to be present in populations around the world.

Deadlier strains
But not all coronaviruses cause mild disease. Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome) caused by SARS-CoV was first detected in November 2002. The cause of this outbreak wasn’t confirmed until 2003 when the genome of the virus was identified by Canada’s National Microbiology Laboratory. Sars bears many similarities to the current pandemic of COVID-19. Older people were much more likely to suffer severe disease and symptoms included fever, cough, muscle pain and sore throat. But there was a much greater chance of dying if you had Sars. From 2002 until the last reported case in 2014, 774 people died.

A decade later, in 2012, there was another outbreak involving a newly identified coronavirus: MERS-CoV. The first case of Middle East respiratory syndrome (Mers) occurred in Saudi Arabia. There were two further Mers outbreaks: South Korea in 2015 and Saudi Arabia in 2018. There are a handful of Mers cases every year, but the outbreaks are usually well contained.

So why did Sars or Mers not result in pandemics? The R0 of both Sars and SARS-CoV-2 is about two or three (although some more recent estimates of the R0 for SARS-CoV-2 are around five), meaning that every infected person is likely to infect two or three other people. The symptoms of Sars were more severe, so it was much easier to identify and isolate patients.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

"Viruses tend to like cold dry weather versus warm moist weather, that is a fact but we have no idea, since this is a brand new virus"

Dr. Fauci - March 19, 2020


Fauci said it was a BRAND NEW virus...........not a "new variant".

I gotta go with GoDeep on this... that's some nit-pickin' there. If I picked up a classic '68 Camaro Rally Sport and posted a photo on TNet, sayin', "Check out my new ride!!" Are you going to say, "Nice wheels!" or would you say, "That's not new. It's over 50 years old."

New virus, new variant, I think that we all know what Dr. Fauci was implying... that this is a novel coronavirus strain, variant, whatever, and may not behave as previously know coronaviruses behaved. Sure Dr. Fauci may not have stated everything perfectly, but he was using the best information that he had available to him at the time. Should we have been wearing masks in January and February of 2020? Probably not. There weren't enough cases to justify it. Should we be wearing masks now? Probably depends on where you're located. Around me? I'd say yes. Heck, a school in a nearby county had to shut down because ~60 out of ~300 students were COVID positive. He's following a process known as adaptive management.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I have had my shots.

If masks were 100% effective at preventing infection, or if being fully vaccinated meant that you had no chance of transmitting the virus, then you would be right. However, there are some who would like to get the vaccine but it is not recommended because of compromised immune systems or other conditions. They have to rely on masks that are not 100% effective at preventing infection. Also, we know that vaccinated people, like you and I, can be asymptomatic and still carry and transmit the virus, perhaps to individuals who would like to get vaccinated but cannot (like the aforementioned or children under 12).

Your personal freedoms (and mine) matter, but how we choose to exercise our personal freedoms can, and does affect the health and well-being of others.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

I just lost a family member to covid I have memories of for 60+ years who had a kidney replacement 5 years ago and was advised not to get vaccine by her doctor and she died 2 weeks ago. Her family is hurt and angry she didn't get faccine.

The odds of spreading virus after being vaccinated is e-x-t-r-e-m-e-l-y low, especially Moderna. If I am in a location where someone is wearing a mask, my not wearing a mask because I'm vacvinated shouldn't matter, they are wearing a mask. I am living my life.

 

[GoDeep]

I gotta go with GoDeep on this... that's some nit-pickin' there. If I picked up a classic '68 Camaro Rally Sport and posted a photo on TNet, sayin', "Check out my new ride!!" Are you going to say, "Nice wheels!" or would you say, "That's not new. It's over 50 years old."

New virus, new variant, I think that we all know what Dr. Fauci was implying... that this is a novel coronavirus strain, variant, whatever, and may not behave as previously know coronaviruses behaved. Sure Dr. Fauci may not have stated everything perfectly, but he was using the best information that he had available to him at the time. Should we have been wearing masks in January and February of 2020? Probably not. There weren't enough cases to justify it. Should we be wearing masks now? Probably depends on where you're located. Around me? I'd say yes. Heck, a school in a nearby county had to shut down because ~60 out of ~300 students were COVID positive. He's following a process known as adaptive management.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck



Kindest regards,
Kantuck

Thank God, someone who gets it....

 

[Kantuckkeean]

I just lost a family member to covid I have memories of for 60+ years who had a kidney replacement 5 years ago and was advised not to get vaccine by her doctor and she died 2 weeks ago. Her family is hurt and angry she didn't get faccine.

The odds of spreading virus after being vaccinated is e-x-t-r-e-m-e-l-y low, especially Moderna. If I am in a location where someone is wearing a mask, my not wearing a mask because I'm vacvinated shouldn't matter, they are wearing a mask. I am living my life.

I'm sorry for your loss. I would be hurt and angry as well.

I agree with you that the odds of a vaccinated person transmitting the virus are much lower. I was just pointing out that they're not zero. I also agree with you that the onus is on the unvaccinated or unprotected to protect themselves, if they're concerned about it. You've gotten your vaccinations and that is laudable.

I just don't mind going the extra mile to do what I can to protect the community members who may be at greater risk (which I consider includes my under 12 children), which is why I wear a mask when indoors in public.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck