'Deadman's Island' map hoax and Cerris Francis' claims debunked

[Oak Island Sage]

Time? Really? If you take time as your base then surly Oak Island is by far the worst of all treasure searches. Without any results!

HI Bocaj, you haven't answered my question, it must have slipped your mind, so please allow me to ask you again for the proof of your declaration. You said and I quote, " The idea that Kidd/Avery buried treasure on Oak Island has been around for decades" so where is your non evasive answer, and comprehensive proof of that assertion please,

I'm sure you would not want people to think that you don't have anything to justify your personal statement, which by the way you have put in the public domain.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please end the sniping between members, it violates our rules.

"If you disagree with another member's post, make your comments in a polite and respectful manner."

"Don't attack, provoke, insult, or deliberately offend anyone."

"All members are equal, regardless of age, gender, ethnicity, education, or experience. Never take a superior tone with, or "talk down" to, anyone."

 

[Bocaj]

HI Bocaj, you haven't answered my question, it must have slipped your mind, so please allow me to ask you again for the proof of your declaration. You said and I quote, " The idea that Kidd/Avery buried treasure on Oak Island has been around for decades" so where is your non evasive answer, and comprehensive proof of that assertion please,

I didn't declare such a thing, the only thing I ever wrote in that direction is that I do agree that there is probably a connection between Kidd's 100k treasure claim and Avery's treasure. But I never related that to OI. It is actually what makes me sad that the disagreements get pushed up to the level as it is instead of concentrating on where agreements can be found and sharing the ideas that can bring us all forward.

 

[Cryptid1990]

HI Bocaj, you haven't answered my question, it must have slipped your mind, so please allow me to ask you again for the proof of your declaration. You said and I quote, " The idea that Kidd/Avery buried treasure on Oak Island has been around for decades" so where is your non evasive answer, and comprehensive proof of that assertion please,

I'm sure you would not want people to think that you don't have anything to justify your personal statement, which by the way you have put in the public domain.

Oak Island Sage

Pirates, Buccaneers & Other Scallywags & Swashbucklers by Terry Rowan (2014):

 

[Oak Island Sage]

I didn't declare such a thing, the only thing I ever wrote in that direction is that I do agree that there is probably a connection between Kidd's 100k treasure claim and Avery's treasure. But I never related that to OI. It is actually what makes me sad that the disagreements get pushed up to the level as it is instead of concentrating on where agreements can be found and sharing the ideas that can bring us all forward.

Hi Bocaj, I only quoted what you wrote yourself, and I assumed you could provide me with something that the flock constantly require of me, clear undisputed evidence.

In about 2004 I was sharing information with Paul Hawkins, I gave him my reasons for my possible Kidd/Every connection theory that I was working on, he promptly used my hypothesis himself and we did not part as friends.
Now if anyone can add to the Kidd/Every collusion theory by quoting a source before 2004, (and their possible connection with Oak Island) I would love to be proved that I was not the first to put the suggestion in print.
Cerris Francis aka Oak Island Sage

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Pirates, Buccaneers & Other Scallywags & Swashbucklers by Terry Rowan (2014):

View attachment 2258362

Hi Cryptid1990, Mr Rowan was (in 2014) clearly referring to what I was posting on a forum about ten years earlier in approximately 2004, this was on the popular "Oak Island Treasure" website run by my friend Jo Atherton.
And by the way the viewing hits for my topic on her impressive website entitled, "Oak Island Revelations" eventually reached almost three hundred thousand, top that.🙂
Oak Island Sage

 

[Bocaj]

Hi Bocaj, I only quoted what you wrote yourself, and I assumed you could provide me with something that the flock constantly require of me, clear undisputed evidence.

You mix me up with some other poster I am sure of it.

In about 2004 I was sharing information with Paul Hawkins, I gave him my reasons for my possible Kidd/Every connection theory that I was working on, he promptly used my hypothesis himself and we did not part as friends.
Now if anyone can add to the Kidd/Every collusion theory by quoting a source before 2004, (and their possible connection with Oak Island) I would love to be proved that I was not the first to put the suggestion in print.
Cerris Francis aka Oak Island Sage

I developed the idea of a connection (not collusion) independently and later read about Hawkins having a similar idea. I do not rely on the Palmer maps for it as I always found their authenticity doubtful. Still there is a faint possibility that they contain clues that were known at the time of their creation in the start of the 20th century. I will not exclude that yet even if it is quite clear that they are themself fake.

In any case I never had an interest in Kidd or OI, I am only interested in Avery. I personally think that many here have made their minds up and are totally inflexible to incooperate new facts and ideas. Like the discovery of the RI map. Instead of correcting their own ideas and keeping what is still valuable from them (in your case the Kidd/Avery connection) they fight the new facts and ideas with unquestioning zeal.

I can of course not to force this onto anyone but I would really like this being less confrontational and that everyone here takes a step back. From my point of view nothing is proven in an absolute sense. For me everyone here could have some valuable ideas to contribute if modesty would get a foothold here I am sure others would listen again.

 

[Carl-NC]

Hi Carl-NC, you said and I quote, "The idea Kidd/Avery buried treasure on Oak Island has been around for decades". really! now perhaps you would care to prove that declaration.

HI Bocaj, you haven't answered my question, it must have slipped your mind, so please allow me to ask you again for the proof of your declaration. You said and I quote, " The idea that Kidd/Avery buried treasure on Oak Island has been around for decades" so where is your non evasive answer, and comprehensive proof of that assertion please,

Neither I nor Bocaj said this.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi Cryptid1990, Mr Rowan was (in 2014) clearly referring to what I was posting on a forum about ten years earlier in approximately 2004, this was on the popular "Oak Island Treasure" website run by my friend Jo Atherton.
And by the way the viewing hits for my topic on her impressive website entitled, "Oak Island Revelations" eventually reached almost three hundred thousand, top that.🙂
Oak Island Sage

Stories that William Kidd or Henry Avery buried treasure on Oak Island were first told and recorded in the 19th century. They were made up out of whole cloth, or at least there is no historical evidence Kidd/Avery set foot on Oak Island. You appear to be trying to take credit for being the first person to claim Kidd and Avery met or worked together on Oak Island to deposit a treasure. Assuming you first came up with this, why would you want to take credit for a highly speculative theory without a shred of evidence and that is extremely improbable?

 

[Oak Island Sage]

I didn't declare such a thing, the only thing I ever wrote in that direction is that I do agree that there is probably a connection between Kidd's 100k treasure claim and Avery's treasure. But I never related that to OI. It is actually what makes me sad that the disagreements get pushed up to the level as it is instead of concentrating on where agreements can be found and sharing the ideas that can bring us all forward.

Hi Bocaj I must apologise to you, looking back through the post it was actually Cryptid1990 who made that claim not you, sorry.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Stories that William Kidd or Henry Avery buried treasure on Oak Island were first told and recorded in the 19th century. They were made up out of whole cloth, or at least there is no historical evidence Kidd/Avery set foot on Oak Island. You appear to be trying to take credit for being the first person to claim Kidd and Avery met or worked together on Oak Island to deposit a treasure. Assuming you first came up with this, why would you want to take credit for a highly speculative theory without a shred of evidence and that is extremely improbable?

Hi Cryptid1990, You have made a clear statement now prove it. Please quote any source before 2004 that suggested collusion existed between Kidd and Every and their theorized correction with Oak Island.
Yes I am most certainly taking the credit for being the first person to put forward that theory, Paul Hawkins merely adapted it for his own use. In addition to that I am still convinced that my theory is true. Now all you have to do is find some old book that suggest a covert partnership existed between Kidd and Every, and their clandestine connection with Oak Island, and then prove that this other person's theory was in print somewhere before - 2004, go ahead ask AI.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Bocaj]

Hi Bocaj I must apologise to you, looking back through the post it was actually Cryptid1990 who made that claim not you, sorry.

Oak Island Sage

Thx,

also I do not think that Cryptid1990 was referring to any collusion between them but simply that the story that either of them buried a treasure on OI has been told since the 19th century. I personally know only of Kidd's supposed treasure on OI. I never heard anything about Avery and OI but as I do not research OI that means nothing.

As I stated before I am interested in anything that shows a connection between Kidd and Avery. But so far I have seen nothing from you but statements. Hawkins at least had some arguments (I posted them from his dis-functional site here).

My main argument comes from the first "Avery Letter" that clearly states: "W.K. says:" with WK assumed to be the initials of Kidd. From my knowledge this is the only historic document that indicates a connection between them.

From there I do a lot of speculation but I do not pretend those are facts. This is what I am missing with you and most others here is that there is no clear distinction between facts and speculation.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi Cryptid1990, You have made a clear statement now prove it. Please quote any source before 2004 that suggested collusion existed between Kidd and Every and their theorized correction with Oak Island.
Yes I am most certainly taking the credit for being the first person to put forward that theory, Paul Hawkins merely adapted it for his own use. In addition to that I am still convinced that my theory is true. Now all you have to do is find some old book that suggest a covert partnership existed between Kidd and Every, and their clandestine connection with Oak Island, and then prove that this other person's theory was in print somewhere before - 2004, go ahead ask AI.

Oak Island Sage

I actually said:

Stories that William Kidd or Henry Avery buried treasure on Oak Island were first told and recorded in the 19th century.

For example, The Treasure of the Seas by James De Mille (1872), p. 83:

A History of Geography of Nova Scotia by John Burgess Calkin (1877), p. 84:

Liverpool Transcript 1862 - Story of Oak Island's Money Pit

A story in the Liverpool Transcript newspaper - 1862, Vol19, written by an early searcher named J.B. McCully gives us one of the earliest written accounts of the Oak Island mystery. His presentation of the "Oak Island Diggins" remains a worthy introduction to Oak Island.

www.oakislandmystery.com

Truro, June 2, 1862
When the first settlers from the United States came to Chester, they brought with them a story that an old sailor, while on his death bed, stated that he belonged to Captain Kidd's crew, and that he helped to bury on an Island, somewhere in that neighborhood, about two millions pound value of treasure, but that he had never dared to avail himself of the secret for fear of the "law" taking hold of him as a Pirate.

You hardly came up with a new theory. There have been stories of Kidd and his crewmembers, burying treasure on Oak Island since the 19th century, and these stories have been mentioned in many books on buried treasure before 2004. You merely modified one of these fictional tales to say Kidd met or "colluded" with Avery. In 1990, someone claimed that Blackbeard visited Oak Island and in 1989, someone else claimed, "Oak Island treasure was the legendary lost horde of Olivier Levasseur". None of this is corroborated and it is all total nonsense.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Cryptid1990. You can not post links to sites selling products, your link will disappear.

 

[releventchair]

Avery was too busy keeping his neck amid other goings on as a highly sought individual to be sailing for North America.
While Kidd was finding plenty of trouble himself.
Though not mentioned in Avery's orbit in the last years of the 1600's.
[The crew of 113 said that they were unlicensed slavers manning a warship of 46 guns named the Fancy and in return for not informing on them to the East India Company or the Royal African Company, the crew was going to give Trott some money and the ship. According to the crew, their captain was a man named 'Henry Bridgeman' and they had just sailed from the African coast to unload slaves. The crew needed some rest and decided to stay in the British claimed Bahamas.

For Trott this was an easy decision. The island of New Providence was about eight years into disrepair and the settlement only had about 60 or 70 men total. The Nine Years War was going on at the time which meant the French were at war with the English. Only recently the French had captured the island of Excuma which lay 140 miles southwest and he knew they were making their way towards Nassau. In addition to becoming £860 richer, which was three times his annual salary, Trott could use the warship and the hundred or so pirates to bolster the islands defenses and even possibly deter the French from attacking. Also if Trott turned the 'illegal slavers' away they could turn violent and decimate the town with their superior numbers. With all of these variables to consider, Trott called a meeting of Nassau's Council.



An Exact Draught of the Island of New Providence (c. 1700s)

]

 

[releventchair]

Sought before during and after Kidds capture ; Avery wasn't found in or around North America. Or sighted there post New Providence Island.

[Since Every was denied any pardon for the rest of his life, he simply disappeared from the history books at this point. It is likely that Every's crew split up at this point in order to throw off their trail. Some headed to North America, while others including Every headed right into the heart of the British Empire at the capital of London.

Every's last known movement was in June of 1696 when he and about twenty of his crew sailed aboard the Sea Flower sloop along with some more crew in the Isaac and headed towards Ireland. As they were unloading their treasure at port they aroused the suspicious of the local authorities. Two of the pirates were caught however, Every and the rest of the crew were able to escape in to the night once again.

There have been many reported sightings and theories to what happened to Every after this point. Depending on which account you believe Every either died in poverty in Devon, England or was living as a pirate king of the kingdom of Libertalia on the island of Madagascar. While there were many sightings and the manhunt continued for a decade after his disappearance no one ever heard from Henry Every after this point. It is generally unknown what the King of Pirates truly did with his untold fortunes stolen from an emperor descended from Genghis Khan himself.]

Pirate Rounders | Henry Every, the 'King of Pirates'

Henry Every was a famous 17th century privateer who raided the Indian Mughals and Caribbean alike. His eventual fate is unknown, as he disappears from history after evading capture.

goldenageofpiracy.org

 

[releventchair]

[ last reliably seen on Ascension Island in the mid-Atlantic, apparently heading west.]

https://www.historicmysteries.com/history/henry-every-pirate/25193/

 

[Oak Island Sage]

I actually said:

For example, The Treasure of the Seas by James De Mille (1872), p. 83:

View attachment 2258444
A History of Geography of Nova Scotia by John Burgess Calkin (1877), p. 84:

View attachment 2258443

Liverpool Transcript 1862 - Story of Oak Island's Money Pit

A story in the Liverpool Transcript newspaper - 1862, Vol19, written by an early searcher named J.B. McCully gives us one of the earliest written accounts of the Oak Island mystery. His presentation of the "Oak Island Diggins" remains a worthy introduction to Oak Island.

www.oakislandmystery.com

You hardly came up with a new theory. There have been stories of Kidd and his crewmembers, burying treasure on Oak Island since the 19th century, and these stories have been mentioned in many books on buried treasure before 2004. You merely modified one of these fictional tales to say Kidd met or "colluded" with Avery. In 1990, someone claimed that Blackbeard visited Oak Island and in 1989, someone else claimed, "Oak Island treasure was the legendary lost horde of Olivier Levasseur". None of this is corroborated and it is all total nonsense.

Hi Cryptid1990, you are predictably evading the issue, you made a statement, now show any book before 2004 that claims Captain Henry Every was a secret partner of Captain William Kidd and/or ever personally sailed to Oak Island.
All your remarks about me are irrelevant, you made the declaration so the onus is on you to now produce the evidence that Henry Every was involved.
I have said all along that I believe that William Kidd was involved with Oak Island, I only theorised that Henry Every was his covert partner, apparently you have evidence that proves I was right, I can't wait to see it.

Oak Island Sage

I actually said:

For example, The Treasure of the Seas by James De Mille (1872), p. 83:

View attachment 2258444
A History of Geography of Nova Scotia by John Burgess Calkin (1877), p. 84:

View attachment 2258443

Liverpool Transcript 1862 - Story of Oak Island's Money Pit

A story in the Liverpool Transcript newspaper - 1862, Vol19, written by an early searcher named J.B. McCully gives us one of the earliest written accounts of the Oak Island mystery. His presentation of the "Oak Island Diggins" remains a worthy introduction to Oak Island.

www.oakislandmystery.com

You hardly came up with a new theory. There have been stories of Kidd and his crewmembers, burying treasure on Oak Island since the 19th century, and these stories have been mentioned in many books on buried treasure before 2004. You merely modified one of these fictional tales to say Kidd met or "colluded" with Avery. In 1990, someone claimed that Blackbeard visited Oak Island and in 1989, someone else claimed, "Oak Island treasure was the legendary lost horde of Olivier Levasseur". None of this is corroborated and it is all total nonsense.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi Cryptid1990, you are predictably evading the issue, you made a statement, now show any book before 2004 that claims Captain Henry Every was a secret partner of Captain William Kidd and/or ever personally sailed to Oak Island.
All your remarks about me are irrelevant, you made the declaration so the onus is on you to now produce the evidence that Henry Every was involved.
I have said all along that I believe that William Kidd was involved with Oak Island, I only theorised that Henry Every was his covert partner, apparently you have evidence that proves I was right, I can't wait to see it.

Oak Island Sage

Harold T. Wilkins in 1940 claimed Henry Avery (Every) travelled to Oak Island and buried treasure. I have read earlier sources than this but do not remember them right now. However, Wilkins undeniably was claiming Avery sailed to Oak Island 64 years before you:

As I said, there is nothing really new in your book. You are rehashing dubious claims without evidence from many decades ago.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Thx,

also I do not think that Cryptid1990 was referring to any collusion between them but simply that the story that either of them buried a treasure on OI has been told since the 19th century. I personally know only of Kidd's supposed treasure on OI. I never heard anything about Avery and OI but as I do not research OI that means nothing.

Correct, I meant that for many decades there have been stories that Kidd or Avery buried treasure hence there is nothing new in Oak Island Sage's book. Above I provided a 1940 source for Avery (Harold T. Wilkins) [there are earlier sources] and three 19th century sources for Kidd.