George II HP cast in Pewter/Lead

[steelheadwill]

Hi all!
I went over to 'Everything Beach', you never know what will come up next at this target dense area.
It's a prime spot for Sterling flatware, that's what I was hoping for.
got 4 pieces, none sterling.
Cool WWI Gunner toy,
sideplate from a very popular pocketknife, got lots of this style..
Handmade padlock, shackle stamped '50 G'.
Pewter Brooch with most of its 'Diamonds' intact.
Hunting here at low tide, you have no access to water, (except what forms in your footsteps), so a lot of mudcaked targets get pocketed with no idea of what they are.
this is my 6th cast Copy, I say pewter because of the edge flaking, though it is likely high in lead content.
Very thin, correct diameter at 29mm, weight is also close to the low end of geniune strikes at 128 grains, (Late G2s ranged from 130-160 grains )
This site is pretty far from the lead works where most of the other copies were found.
I think these were made as 'bag fillers' as using any of them singly would show an obvious fake.
Anyway, this find made the hunt most worthwhile
Thanks for looking And Best digs to you all!

 

[Steve in PA]

Interesting counterfeit Herbie. It's crudeness makes me wonder whether it was made to intentionally deceive, or whether someone was just playing around with a crude impression mold they made.

 

[Iron Patch]

More interesting than a regular dug George II for sure.

 

[Iron Patch]

Herbie , Most unusual counterfeit KG II made of pewter , a crude early attempt is interesting to say the least I am amazed it survived in salt water possibly better than a copper . The cast seam on the reverse First , Sentinel with a 2000 year old coin , now your counterfeit KG . I thrive on stuff like this but their causing me to scratch a bald spot in my scalp This one could be a sleeper ... Great bogus George II find !!!! CMD

The main counterfeit collectors show fairly little interest in cast halfpennies, especially when they have condition issues. White metal no doubt helps but being very dug kills it.

I know the guy that I'm pretty sure buys more than anyone and he does so just for what I just said... most aren't interested, and he thinks it's a good investment. Now if you were to dig something really strange like a crude, cast, especially George III, well that puts everyone back in the game with fists full of twenties or better.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Re: George II HP cast in Pewter

Interesting coin (like) find, I will wait & watch for any further thoughts...

The Back looks like it has lines. This might indicate some type of Medal Cool finds

SS

 

[VOL1266-X]

Herbie found a spoon-Surprise, Surprise!!! Nice finds Herebie. Your roll continues. That's an uunusual coin and nice lock. HH, Quindy.

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Nice finds Herbie! Congrats buddy

 

[steelheadwill]

Thanks All for your research and input!
As TimeKiller says, the pewters are some of the best condition finds from saltwater.
Buttons, coins, flatware all seem to hold up.
Stored in water for now, that edge flaking sets in hard when they dry out.
The line that shows on both sides of the piece are interesting, coin couldn't be passed singly like that, maybe a non useable error tossed into the water.
There are a series of lines on the back, I can see a trace of shield and head.
When I said this piece wasn't found where the other fakes were it was relatively speaking,
less than a mile, and on the way to town...
Here is another that I dug last summer.
this talk of pewter coins has me thinking 'Continental Curency'
HH to everyone

 

[steelheadwill]

Neat counterfeit. You should take it to your local junk yard and see if they have one of those guns that can determine exactly what alloys were used. The other day I tested all my coppers and, to my surprise, only found one counterfeit. The results were pretty interesting as you can see from the pic. It was a CT copper.

Dave

That is an interesting alloy.
I think a lot of the counterfiets were made with whatever scraps got thrown in the pot.
looks to be the case with your 'Copper'
I didn't even know there was such a tool in common use,
I need to make a scrap run anyway, Thanks Slasher

Well, the Sn and Pb is tin and lead which make pewter. It's kind of funny because it was one of my coins I least expected to a counterfeit. Do you know much about the Machin Mills counterfeits?

Slasher your coin also has 40% copper, like I said, whatever fits in the pot
I know a bit about Machin Mills. (I studied under Breen for a couple days).
They're a hi $$ repro, I recall trying to match this coin to the Breen Examples.
Made my head spin, Machin, Atlee, I don't know...
Do you think your copper is a machin? I thought they only made GIIIs.
Best to you

 

[steelheadwill]

Neat counterfeit. You should take it to your local junk yard and see if they have one of those guns that can determine exactly what alloys were used. The other day I tested all my coppers and, to my surprise, only found one counterfeit. The results were pretty interesting as you can see from the pic. It was a CT copper.

Dave

A large percentage of British counterfeits are made of copper, just that they used less of it.(Lighter weight) So you cannot go by a metal content test alone for checking if counterfeit or not.

A KGII pewter is a scarce find according to what I have been told by the C4 collectors, I found a falling apart pewter KGII a few years ago, the post is somewhere here in the archives.

Here is my pewter KGII Halfpenny, as you can see it looks more like what you would expect to find from a pewter type coin found in the ground. I had to spray it with lacquer to prevent it from crumbling away to dust!



Don

Thanks Don, Great example you have, it shows the difference made by saltwater storage.
Lead and pewter almost always come out black,
I will use the same method to preserve this as my 'Curency' coin, long soak in freshwater, slow dry and
elmers. do you think shellac is a better idea?
This is the type of find I like!! better than 4 modern gold rings

 

[steelheadwill]

Interesting counterfeit Herbie. It's crudeness makes me wonder whether it was made to intentionally deceive, or whether someone was just playing around with a crude impression mold they made.

Hi Steve,
this is #4 out of 7 fakes and impressions I've dug that seem 'Unpassable' whether 'Bag fillers', thrown away errors,
or someones avocation I can't say. they sure are interesting and the number found along with other evidence of casting leaves no doubt someone local was 'experimenting', at least with some of the things found..
HH, Herbie.

 

[Don in SJ]

I researched a bit more on preserving pewter after finding my GW Resign'd Medal this Spring and was going to try Elmer's but found several negative comments about it which made me decide to go with the spraying of clear Lacquer(Matte Finish) which is the widely used method on pewter buttons and what I have been using for several years. Elmer's might be just fine, but again, I did find negatives, maybe becuase of the water content in it, I don't remember. Regardless, you know you have to do something or else it will start to flake away to an ugly relic.

Don

 

[steelheadwill]

I researched a bit more on preserving pewter after finding my GW Resign'd Medal this Spring and was going to try Elmer's but found several negative comments about it which made me decide to go with the spraying of clear Lacquer(Matte Finish) which is the widely used method on pewter buttons and what I have been using for several years. Elmer's might be just fine, but again, I did find negatives, maybe becuase of the water content in it, I don't remember. Regardless, you know you have to do something or else it will start to flake away to an ugly relic.

Don

My 'Curency' is holding up with the elmers, I give it a weekly check..
Am happy to hear that matte lacquer is more appropriate, will use here.
Again, thanks for the input!
my piece is more special than I knew

 

[allen]

good assortment of finds !!!

 

[Iron Patch]

Neat counterfeit. You should take it to your local junk yard and see if they have one of those guns that can determine exactly what alloys were used. The other day I tested all my coppers and, to my surprise, only found one counterfeit. The results were pretty interesting as you can see from the pic. It was a CT copper.

Dave

That is an interesting alloy.
I think a lot of the counterfiets were made with whatever scraps got thrown in the pot.
looks to be the case with your 'Copper'
I didn't even know there was such a tool in common use,
I need to make a scrap run anyway, Thanks Slasher

Well, the Sn and Pb is tin and lead which make pewter. It's kind of funny because it was one of my coins I least expected to a counterfeit. Do you know much about the Machin Mills counterfeits?

Slasher your coin also has 40% copper, like I said, whatever fits in the pot
I know a bit about Machin Mills. (I studied under Breen for a couple days).
They're a hi $$ repro, I recall trying to match this coin to the Breen Examples.
Made my head spin, Machin, Atlee, I don't know...
Do you think your copper is a machin? I thought they only made GIIIs.
Best to you

Looks like a typical George III. If it's 1773 or 1775 it's definitely out. The other side would be a good indicator too because even if it looks very close to a match for you, once you've looked at so many coins, and for so long, the slightest differences jump out at you. (M. mills vs Brit. counterfeits)The guys who are serious about these usually don't even need a date to ID a coin, and even seeing just one side they are pretty sure what will be on the other.

 

[CrazySlasher]

Neat counterfeit. You should take it to your local junk yard and see if they have one of those guns that can determine exactly what alloys were used. The other day I tested all my coppers and, to my surprise, only found one counterfeit. The results were pretty interesting as you can see from the pic. It was a CT copper.

Dave

That is an interesting alloy.
I think a lot of the counterfiets were made with whatever scraps got thrown in the pot.
looks to be the case with your 'Copper'
I didn't even know there was such a tool in common use,
I need to make a scrap run anyway, Thanks Slasher

Well, the Sn and Pb is tin and lead which make pewter. It's kind of funny because it was one of my coins I least expected to a counterfeit. Do you know much about the Machin Mills counterfeits?

Slasher your coin also has 40% copper, like I said, whatever fits in the pot
I know a bit about Machin Mills. (I studied under Breen for a couple days).
They're a hi $$ repro, I recall trying to match this coin to the Breen Examples.
Made my head spin, Machin, Atlee, I don't know...
Do you think your copper is a machin? I thought they only made GIIIs.
Best to you

I would honestly have no idea if it was a Machin Mills. They did make some CT coppers. I usually don't post my pics in someone else's thread but since it's become more of a discussion on counterfeits, here's my CT copper.

Dave

 

[steelheadwill]

Thanks Iron Patch And Slasher
I may pull that G3 and put some new pix in a whatsit post...
The date could be 75 or 76 to my eyes,
Let me see if I have an decent reverse pic on file.
Slasher, I can't help with your Conn, Having an period state repro is a prize for sure!
BTW, I welcome others pix on my threads, anything having to do with the discussion, nicer examples, similar finds, All are good!

 

[Iron Patch]

Thanks Iron Patch And Slasher
I may pull that G3 and put some new pix in a whatsit post...
The date could be 75 or 76 to my eyes,
Let me see if I have an decent reverse pic on file.
Slasher, I can't help with your Conn, Having an period state repro is a prize for sure!
BTW, I welcome others pix on my threads, anything having to do with the discussion, nicer examples, similar finds, All are good!

I think you have a 1775. Many 6s kinda look like 5s. Even a 1776 wouldn't necessarily be a rare coin but would definitely be one to follow up.

 

[jdsarasin8194]

cool finds
*as soon as the word "counterfeit" IronPatch comes a runnin hahaha

 

[Iron Patch]

cool finds
*as soon as the word "counterfeit" IronPatch comes a runnin hahaha

But he didn't say "the bun is different," so what brings you here?

 

[jdsarasin8194]

cool finds
*as soon as the word "counterfeit" IronPatch comes a runnin hahaha

But he didn't say "the bun is different," so what brings you here?

hahaha, well ive been gone for a long time because i have had alot of important school stuff this year, like SAT's and AP exams and stuff, but now that schools out i have time so im just browsing at the momment, see whats been goin on :P