Great Seal Button Backmarks Help

[Bigcypresshunter]

I am assembling a list of US Army Great Seal button backmarks 1902-present.. This seems to be the most complete list available anywhere. With the help of TN members, I am occasionally adding and improving upon it. So far I have over 100 different backmarks. Anyone with a Great Seal button backmark or backmark variation not listed please post the pic and Ill add it. The thread is already so long its not necessary to add anything already pictured. Thanks.

This is how it all started:


I bought 2 bags of small Great Seal of US buttons for a buck at a flea market. Can someone help me date these backmarks? I believe they are all post 1902. I cant find anything else online.

1- Top row SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY
3- Bottom CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.
4- WATERBURY BUTTON CO.

 

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[ATpro5]

one for the list...



One For The List... GAUNT LONDON. This Button Has A Silver Front. Picked It Up At A Flea market

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

@Rocker - Great Seals date back to 1782 but of course with different styles.. research Great Seals and you will see the difference styles there are..

No way

Many different manufacturers caused slight differences in the design and the backmarks are numerous some dating into the 1800s as companies used up old stock backs...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

View attachment 881449
Albert's OD24 (Official or Diplomatic) "R&W Robinson Extra Rich" backmark, pre-1848.

Great collection mike. I like the locket/compass types. I also have some 19th century backmarks on Great Seal fronts and this does indeed look like a Great Seal but the way I understand it is that all Great Seal buttons were manufactured in the 20th century but button companies often used up old stock backs.

So all Great Seal buttons were manufactured post 1902 in the 20th century...correct?
Please correct me if Im wrong.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

View attachment 901597 View attachment 901600

One For The List... GAUNT LONDON. This Button Has A Silver Front. Picked It Up At A Flea market

nice

 

[creskol]

Here are a few more that might be worth adding to the list.

 

[rockermike17368]

Sorry to respond so late. Lots going on lately....The buttons that we're talking about on here are 1902 to the present day. Actually they should technically be referred to as the Coat of Arms of the U.S. In 1902 and again in 1910 brought many changes in the Army's uniforms and changes with the Great Seal buttons. Although, many people date the "rimless, plain background" buttons 1902-1910, I guarantee that some were produced after 1910. The Gaunt/London backmarked varieties with the "Sta-brite" finishes are at least from the 1960's or even later. Gaunt was purchased by Firmin in 1991. A really good reference for these changes is "Survey of U.S. Army Uniforms, Weapons and Accoutrements" by David Cole, 2007. Starts out in the Late 18th century to the present. You can find it online and download as a pdf file.

 

[rockermike17368]

As far as 19th century backmarks on Great Seals, these are backmarks that were simply still in use. Some of the Horstmann backmarks date from the 1890's and continued as late as 1947. One thing I do is to look at Army uniforms from 1902 to WWII and Korean era. Look at the backmarks. It helps nail down the period of use of some backmarks. Look who made the uniform, especially officers coats, It's another way of dating the buttons too. Many tailors had their names placed on uniform buttons. Horstmann, for example, never made a single button in it's 100 plus years of existence. Scovill, Waterbury and Steel & Johnson made the majority of buttons for Horstmann as well as some British manufacturers.

 

[diggummup]

I don't think there has been a one piece Great Seal shown yet has there?



A special order. Alberts GI106

 

[Diggin4nails]

I found these buttons in Southwest Louisiana at my great uncle's old home place. They were made by Jewelers Products. The small one is made by Scoville.

Sent from my iPhone using TreasureNet

 

[rayscott]

Found this overcoat size button last week. It has no backmark. The area between the two raised circles is textured but there are no words or marks. Does anyone have any information about great seal buttons with no backmark?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Found this overcoat size button last week. It has no backmark. The area between the two raised circles is textured but there are no words or marks. Does anyone have any information about great seal buttons with no backmark?

View attachment 953639 View attachment 953640

I have many with no backmark. As far as I know, they can range throughout the 20th century.

 

[rockermike17368]

C&C Metal c34 USA

Those are very modern, since the year 2000.

I can't find mine.it has C&C Metal c34 USA on back

 

[TiBorn]

Found two great seal buttons today, one says Waterbury Button CT USA and the other says C&C C34 USA, is either of them unique or just two of the many variations around?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

They are common.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There are some interesting buttons on eBay. The seller calls them oil cloth type and they appear to be WWI with no backmarks. Does anybody know anything about these? Are they military issue?
RARE US General Service Oilcloth Eagle Buttons WWI WWII | eBay

I believe I have one but the cloth is gone and the button still shows an imprint of the cloth..

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

BCH, the book "Record of American Uniform And Historical Buttons: Bicentennial Edition" by Alphaeus H. Albert shows those buttons as button GI-109D (page 43), and says:
"General Service, non-metal. Oiled cloth (front only). Blank [back]."

 

[rockermike17368]

Remanufactured buttons

I have never heard of refurbished buttons. Would like to hear more about this. What do the backs look like? What company?

I believe these button were remanufactured by the Scovill Mf'g Co. around 1923 when the army did away with the blackend or subdued buttons. I think they had such a surplus of WWI buttons that this was done. I also have foreign military and non-military and one Indian Wars eagle button that were refitted with Great Seal faces. If the convex of the button was too high, they simply smashed the face to fit the new face on it. Backmarks are varied. I have at least 20 different backmarks. Most the faces appear to be from the same die.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont think its on the list. SCDigginWithAK found an EXTRA***QUALITY*** backmark. Its pre-WW1. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/421574-how-old-great-seal.html

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Thanks I was just about to add it. Great thread

 

[jdsly]

Horstmann phila backmark