Heart of Stone...

[Tylocidaris]

Sheldon J, if someone wants to Believe this is a fossil heart, then there is nothing that can be said to sway them otherwise. They will always "beg the question". From their lack of specific expertise, they could continue to hold their beliefs based on an incomplete understanding of what is involved in the "fossilization" process. Looking at this rock with "heart colored glasses" can happen to doctors, nurses, butchers, or hunters, but that doesn't make it a fossil heart. So, all of those opinions combined still leave us at square one.

On the other hand, if someone wants to know what this "heart shaped" rock is, then they should start trying to identify the type of rock. What are that type of rock's characteristics? What kind of minerals is it made of? How do they weather over time? Does the density typically vary in this type of rock; etc.? These are the questions that can give us the answer to "what is it?" Flint, or chert, jasper, agates and other "rocks" have amazing "internal" structures due to different densities in a given specimen. They weather into spectacularly unusual forms, but in the end they are just cool rocks. I don't think the paleontologist you mentioned is "jealous"; assuming he heard the story of how it was found, there's not much reason for him to see it. He's an expert at what it takes to form a fossil. He probably has expertise in geology. A randomly found cobble that "looks like" something is not uncommon. I hope to see some expert evidence of what kind of rock it is.

Now, does anyone want to buy a fossilized T-Rex eyeball?

 

[Sheldon J]

Key word's Fossilization, vs Mineralization, hugely different process. According to his secretary who was very pleasant, he had been on a month long expedition and came back empty handed, and was very PO'd, he was just being an A hole to every one so he was jealous of anything he did not find.

Over the years I have read too many stories of people making huge finds and being blown off by the rest of the scientific community, the first Dino foot prints, the meteor extinction theory, the first feathered Dino fossil, all were ridiculed by the community at large, and it all took time to gather sufficient evidence and win them over, we are working on it.

I did see the C scan and damn it may not be a heart but that is sure one huge coincidence that the internal structure looks like one. Ever seen a C scan of a Dino egg they work quite well on internal structures is done corectly.....

BTY that is one cool looking (rock?) you have there, or is it plastic, sea glass can take on some real cool shapes too.....

 

[Tylocidaris]

...stream-worn pebble (mostly jasper). My main point is that you have to rule out a bizarre looking geologic occurrence before you start publicly playing the "mineralized heart" card. Otherwise, like Harry said, you lose credibility. Just because that cloud looks like an elephant doesn't mean the 12 people who thought it looked like one are correct in claiming it was....

It would be great if you posted some more pics of it taken in sunlight. Hey, great claims demand....isn't there a rock and gem forum here somewhere. You should post it over there without the story and try to get some geologic opinions.

 

[Harry Pristis]

Ooo! Ooo! I've got one!

Look at this whale testicle from a long-ago whale. I believe that this whale died in waters frigid and deep where portions of the carcass were preserved until they became permineralized.

I've taken this specimen to two specialists, a urologist and an endocrinologist. The endo-guy is still undecided (a real pr**k), but the uro-guy thought the preservation was high in copper and tin -- just what he'd expected, he said. Perhaps the resting place was at one time the site of a black smoker which spewed metals dissolved in super-heated sea water, just as they continue to do today.

Look at the exquisite preservation of this testicle! You can see the stub of the vas deferens, a good bit of epididymis, and even the seminiferous tubules! Notice the attachment points for the large sotaricials which are present at the margin of the epididymis.

I am sure that this find will astound the scientific community when I am finished researching it. What do you think?

​

 

[Kauffy]

HAHAHAHAHA HARRY....you crack me up.

Im sorry....its not a fossilized heart.

"key words, fossilisation vs mineralisation completley different process"?!!!!!!!!!! 90+% of the time fossilisation is only possible due to mineralisation....as 90+% of fossils go through a process where their organic cells are replaced with minerals in the surrounding substrate.... This is why many fossil shells no longer retain their white calcite composition. Organic compounds decay....fossilisation is possible because these organic compounds are replaced by minerals!
(apart from 'fossils' such as mammoth's frozen in ice, obviously there is no mineralisation)

Please see a paleontologist....sure doctors know the anotomical structure of a heart, but they know nothing of the processes involved in fossilisation.... Also...i do not see where you get off calling a paleontologist who you do not even know and A hole....simply because he returned from a trip and was busy. Harry can take the p*ss out of it....quite hillarious.....
but remember, these people have spent years studying...consult one about your 'heart'.....you say you want to authenticitate it..this is the only way to truly do this.

Either you are mislead....or you are trying to mislead.
....i wish you luck in your quest.
Anyhoo....nice testicle Harry.....
Kauffy

 

[Sheldon J]

When a guys secretary says their boss is being an A hole (including to them) then you can take it to the bank...

I spent over 30 years as a Fire Marshall dealing with every type of individual (and situation) you can possibly imagine and believe me when I tell you someone is being something they are indeed what I call them.....

Yes fossilization removes minerals from the ground but Mineralization removes them from the surrounding water and it's elements... so there is a huge difference in the process.

I did a significant amount of personal research before I posted this, but if you want more photos, I have over 270 which eats up approximately 150 gigs of file space, way too many to begin to post anyplace, all were taken under varying lighting conditions, angles, close, and back a tad, with MM rule and without.

So if you want a copy show on up, you sound like an interesting individual to sit down and have a conversation with....

 

[traviscounty]

Sheldon, I will tell you this. You have a nice imagination. Some folks, who I would consider very knowledgeable in Paleontology, have tried to inform you about your rock. The part that bothers me, is that you are misleading some folks. It appears that you are an attention seeker. Good luck with your quest.

 

[Harry Pristis]

I don't understand why you guys are being so skeptical -- my urologist is the best in town. He does lots of vasectomies! If he says this thing is a testicle replaced by copper and tin, I tend to believe him. See the brassy color for yourself.

And my endocrinologist is leaning toward the whale identification, too. He keeps saying, "Interesting. Interesting." I think he hopes to publish an article about the testicle in THE GLANDS JOURNAL, but I am not ready to give the fossil over to him.

And how do you explain those large sotaricials which are found AFAIK only in the testes of deep-diving mammals? It's believed that these sotaricials ("sotaricis," pl. "sotarices") articulate with the deep flutals ("flutalis cavernosus") to protect against immense water pressure.

We may never know the species name of the whale that contributed this testicle to science. I just think of it as my brass testicle.

Sooo, I hope you'll help me prove that this is what my urologist and I believe it to be. Remember,

"... the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are
laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they
laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
---Carl Sagan

(Errr. That doesn't sound quite right.)

 

[Solius Symbiosus]

Yes fossilization removes minerals from the ground but Mineralization removes them from the surrounding water and it's elements... so there is a huge difference in the process.

You seem to be extrapolating from the two processes that they aren't necessarily compatible; not so. While all fossils are mineralized(or nearly all, there are some preserved in ice, and some original material fossils), not everything mineralized is fossil.

Soft tissue preserrvation is only found at a hand full of sites across the globe. These sites, Lagerstattens(a type of flysch deposit), always form in a reducing environment, and the minerals that "form" the fossils are sulfates and phosphates. Too, the critters are generally distorted in appearance, and/or only partially preserved.

Your "fossil" is, almost certainly, composed of chalcedony quartz(not a sulfate or phosphate).Try scratching it with a knife. If you do, you will probably see a film of steel left on the stone where it should have scratched.

I have to ask, if you were suffering from chest pains, would you seek the advise of a paleontologist? Of course not, you would consult a physician.

As paleontology and medicine never cross paths, I have never heard of professional differences arising among the two disciplines. I would assume that any physician would acquiesce to the opinions of a geologist in matters stone, just as a geologist would in the subject of medicine.

Summer time for geologists is a very busy time of year; especially those in academia. It is the time when most field work is done. So, if the guy was curt, it is probably because he has a ton of things to do, and doesn't have the time to explain why your "fossil" isn't a fossil.

Many in academia have been approached by lay persons with what that person thought was an important fossil. Sometimes it is important, usually it is a common fossil, but often, it is an example of pareidolia. Invariably, when someone is claiming vertebrate soft tissue preservation, it is the latter.

And, those are the most troublesome visitors, as they generally refuse to accept that their "fossil" is not a fossil, and continue to use the professors valuable time(especially this time of year) with fallacious arguments as to "why it is, too".

So, you see, it was probably nothing personal, but a time management thing. And the fact that he probably has suffered many bruises before from "beating his head against a wall"... and he probably wasn't looking forward to a head ache.

Once again, it is a stream worn chert pebble.

 

[Solius Symbiosus]

Since we are on the subject, this is an example of soft tissue preservation in a trilobite collected in Up-State New York.

 

[Sheldon J]

Sheldon, I will tell you this. You have a nice imagination. Some folks, who I would consider very knowledgeable in Paleontology, have tried to inform you about your rock. The part that bothers me, is that you are misleading some folks. It appears that you are an attention seeker. Good luck with your quest.

So name me one that has looked, held and done more than been skeptical? Not attention oriented just interested, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck as the old saying goes..... your specialist will not even take a serious look or listen, their opinions have been pre-formed just as in the examples I sited above, had they found it though the trumpets would be sounding...
If you know of any close by say 150 miles that would look, let me know I would love to have one hold this and do some of their test on it, then if one that dose more than look at some photos says it is a rock then I will believe but until then...

 

[Tylocidaris]

Sheldon, you're starting to prove the point about persisting in a belief rather than researching an answer. I assume from the above posts that you're in Michigan...(I think that's in far north Texas isn't it?). Here are some people at the University of Michigan you could check with:

http://www.paleontology.lsa.umich.edu/Directory/individual.html?person=Gunnell

http://www.paleontology.lsa.umich.edu/Directory/individual.html?person=Sanders

http://www.paleontology.lsa.umich.edu/Directory/individual.html?person=Fisher


One of these people should be willing to give you 15 minutes if you asked them.... If not these, then there are others in Michigan; it all depends on how bad you and your friend want the truth. It's all just part of learning about something new from those that have more experience in a different field.

John

 

[Solius Symbiosus]

So name me one that has looked, held and done more than been skeptical? Not attention oriented just interested, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck as the old saying goes..... your specialist will not even take a serious look or listen, their opinions have been pre-formed just as in the examples I sited above, had they found it though the trumpets would be sounding...

See my previous post. Your stubborn refusal to accept the obvious IS the reason that on one wants to investigate your claim. We have been there before, and it is obvious from your replies that you will refuse any explanation except that which affirms YOUR misconseptions.

If you will spend a little time learning the very basics of geology, you will understand why your "fossil" is nothing but a pretty rock, and a fine example of pareidolia.

Too, in your quest, you might want to spend a little time and peruse THIS

 

[fossil_femme]

I would love to have one hold this and do some of their test on it, then if one that dose more than look at some photos says it is a rock then I will believe but until then...

SheldonJ, it's okay for you to stubbornly believe it.

But it's not okay for you to use unfounded claims to sell this fallacy to others. When you make statements like this (quoting your posts word-for-word):

"This is now no longer just a rock but a mineralized heart, one of a kind, none others known to be in existence, a huge and important discovery."

then you are making unfounded, misleading claims that are, in effect, a scam ... since you've made your intentions obvious, through some of your other statements:

"I hope to make the owner of this rock very happy when he sells it..."

"this thing is going to set him up for life..."

"Any one here remember how much that toasted cheese sandwich with the image of Jesus went for on E bay a few years back"

"Now it is time to lawyer up and get more notoriety and I am again working on that."

I just want to say that I don't think this forum is the place for that sort of thing.

But you're on the right track, all right ... gaining notoriety and heading for eBay with dollar signs in your eyes...

 

[micropterus101]

Harry,
I will trade you a fossil nipple for your fossil testicle.

 

[Sheldon J]

Thanks for the links that is the wifes old alma mater, when I get back to Michigan I will give them a try. I'm at a PRA (rotary wing) fly in for the week.

I fully understand the skepticism, logic says it should be gray, it should have crushed or deformed, How the heck could it retain the color, I said interesting rock the when I first saw and held it, I had to be convinced likewise, so look at my reasoning for a few seconds before getting all bent...

Granted a doctor does not know scat about rocks, although one of them that looked at the C scan said he had first trained as a paleontologist, but being a Doctor paid better so...
Will you possibly admit that a doctor that is a trained cardiologist my just know what a heart looks like human or otherwise? If they don't then it is time to find a new one quick before he kills you...
When the Cardiologist said, "that looks like a heart", gets all excited and calls other Cardiologist to show them and they get excited, then by gorge it may just look like one to a trained and state certified licensed individual....

That C scans have been used successfully in the past to look inside rocks such as Dino eggs and see the skeletal structure preserved inside?

When a state certified licensed individual that is a trained radiologist says, "That is a heart", that to them it looks like it has internal characteristics that make it look like a heart?

Not a scam, not fraud, but just some faith in individuals that went to college, spent a bundle of $$$, became licensed and certified by the state, that they have convinced me this is not just some interesting rock but possibly something else...

If further testing when it becomes available indeed proves it to be the real deal, (in my opinion to date it has) it would be nice to donate this to a museum but, I wish my old Friend well, and fully support him. No sob story's here but his life has not been a easy trail and has been picked upon, bullied, beaten by some real low life POS since childhood, they say the best revenge is to live long and well, I am excited and want to see him well off..... Do you know of any like that?

So to date it has looked like a duck, and walked like a duck, now we just need the experts to have a close look and see if it quacks....

Sheldon, you're starting to prove the point about persisting in a belief rather than researching an answer. I assume from the above posts that you're in Michigan...(I think that's in far north Texas isn't it?). Here are some people at the University of Michigan you could check with:

http://www.paleontology.lsa.umich.edu/Directory/individual.html?person=Gunnell

http://www.paleontology.lsa.umich.edu/Directory/individual.html?person=Sanders

http://www.paleontology.lsa.umich.edu/Directory/individual.html?person=Fisher


One of these people should be willing to give you 15 minutes if you asked them.... If not these, then there are others in Michigan; it all depends on how bad you and your friend want the truth. It's all just part of learning about something new from those that have more experience in a different field.

John

 

[Harry Pristis]

Harry,
I will trade you a fossil nipple for your fossil testicle.

You are pullin' my leg now, bassman . . . darn it! Why does no one take my brass testicle seriously! Don't you believe my urologist who has been to college and is state licensed? He is a DIPLOMATE of the American Board of Urology, for pity's sake! He has more experience with testicles than I care to think about!

Anyone can see, bassman, that your object is NOT a nipple. It's clearly a petrified eyeball. I'm gonna' show your image to my dermatologist (who also has been to college), and I'd bet that he'll agree with me. If not, there are other dermatologists in town. It's just a matter of visualizing these rare-to-nonexistent fossils. Some people don't have the vision and others do have visions.

Now we're doin' some science!!

 

[Tylocidaris]

... That's why scientists are cautious about their published opinions. It is the nature of scientific inquiry that there will be critics and contrary opinions. It's more about credibility, less about civility.

Sheldon, I'm glad to hear you will check with the UM paleontologists. Meanwhile, like I said before, you're still at square one. You still don't know what you have (in spite of some very well informed assistance by others here). The opinions of the cardiologist, radiologist, CT operator, and all their certifications and licenses hold less water than some of the detailed info you've been given by some here, in my opinion. In your 30 years as a Fire Marshall, I feel certain you ran into numerous highly educated individuals (complete with licenses and certs) that didn't have a clue regarding fire safety (even though they all had some prior experience with fire). Same deal; you were the expert, they weren't.

I really hope this never comes up for sale....we'll see.

John

 

[Tylocidaris]

Alright Harry, you're cutting into my offers on the T-rex eyeball. Help bassman peddle his fish eye at that masterbass site. 8)

 

[fossil_femme]

... The opinions of the cardiologist, radiologist, CT operator, and all their certifications and licenses hold less water than some of the detailed info you've been given by some here...

But Tylocidaris ... what about the nurse? Don't forget her!
We need to acknowledge the professional opinions of all of the "specialists"!

("This stone has been show to several doctors, nurse and cardiologist, and they all agree all the stuff is there, vessels, fat, connective tissues, multiple chambers, and they were in awe of it." - Sheldon J)