I found religion??

[BioProfessor]

I am going way out on a limb here with this. I am hunting in the Netherlands but I don't think it is something that would just come from or be confined to the Netherlands.

The site is consistently producing coins and other items definitely from the 17th and 18th century. There is, of course, newer stuff but most of the items are from the period when the canal and windmill were there and working.

The find has been hit by a plow which is common most everywhere and since this sucker is 45mm in diameter, it won't get missed forever. So all I have photographed is the top half of the front. It gives the most information. The bottom is just the rest of the body with nothing unusual.

The back does not seem to have another figure. I'm still cleaning it.

It is copper and line engraved. From what I can discover from the web is that a figure holding a BIG sword and a Bible is St. Paul.

So does anybody recognize the style, have any ideas what it may have been used for, what it may have been a part of. Anything?? I have run out of ideas on places to search.

Thanks for the help. I'm hurting on this one.

Daryl

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Great save on the pics Was an ID made on those ?

No it was never IDed. I guess the professors copper is older.

 

[CRUSADER]

What you need is Crusader and Woody's help on this one.

Sorry, unsure of this one until I see the reverse & the whole piece (what happens at the botttom?)

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

That is one mystery find. Be sure to post if you get any updated information on it.

Great find.
Ray S

 

[IronSpike]

What you need is Crusader and Woody's help on this one.

Sorry, unsure of this one until I see the reverse & the whole piece (what happens at the botttom?)

Ok older piece. Asking bioprofessor for better pics May be needed for ID can you make drawing?

 

[BioProfessor]

Hi guys (and girls).

I've been offline for a bit traveling and just beat from traveling. Who ever said flying fun must not fly in the little bitty cramped seats for 10 hours.

Oh well, I'm almost back to normal (my normal not really normal).

I appreciate all the help on the medallion.

I have a better pic now.

The back is blank.

So if anybody has anymore thoughts or guesses, I'm all ears.

Thanks,

Daryl

 

[Merlyn555]

There is one thing for sure with this piece and that is it was not produced by a craftsman.

The subject is very poorly executed with the depth of the lines inconsistant and irratic and the piece is artistically off balance. The width of the lines on the protruding points on both sides are way off being equal. The general proportions of the figure are fairly good but the face is so poorly done as to be almost generic. I'm not sure about the beard it appears it might just be the v neck of the tunic, what I am sure is that the person is depicted as wearing a bulky shawl or cape over the shoulders, this is an image that is usually meant for royalty and not religious persons. The crown is not one usually associated with a coronation crown so I assume that it means that the wearer has worn the crown for a while.

Is it St Paul or Charlemain I have no idea but it is a beautiful piece of very old folk art that deserves to shared and enjoyed.


Fantastic find...............

 

[johnnyi]

Daryl, I suggested in a previous link that you might have found a pilgrim's badge. Did you have reason to eliminate that possibility? Here is another link which also mentions the depiction of Charlemagne on pilgrim's badges. http://books.google.com/books?id=FN...onepage&q=Charlemagne pilgrim's badge&f=false

 

[BioProfessor]

I have not dismissed the idea but I have never seen any copper ones. We find quite a few but none in copper.

And we have never found one that was line engraved. They are all in relief. So?

Waiting for someone else who lives "across the pond" and has much more experience with them to chime in.

Thanks for the help!!

Daryl

 

[Silver Searcher]

Daryl

although a very nice piece I don't think it's a Pilgrims Badge the reason is they were made from Lead for the Pilgrim a Badge was a momento and proof that a journey had been made.

They were fastened to there clothes, hat or satchal, and were usually made from cast Lead, thus making them cheap to buy

SS

 

[BioProfessor]

That is what I thought. All the ones we have found were made of lead or a base metal.

Thanks,

Daryl

 

[johnnyi]

It's not true that pilgrim's badges were always lead. Though lead may be far more common, there are many references to copper alloy pilgrim's badges existing. Here is one.. http://books.google.com/books?id=u9...m=2#v=onepage&q=copper pilgrims badge&f=false

 

[Silver Searcher]

It's not true that pilgrim's badges were always lead. Though lead may be far more common, there are many references to copper alloy pilgrim's badges existing. Here is one.. http://books.google.com/books?id=u9...m=2#v=onepage&q=copper pilgrims badge&f=false

Well they certainly wern't made from Copper, not Copper Alloy(Bronze) which it would seem Daryl's piece is.

 

[BioProfessor]

Makes one think though. Just wish I could find an example of a metal one that is line engraved. All the ones I have seen have been figures in relief.

Makes for a good investigative exercise wouldn't you say?

Thanks for the help and comments.

We'll get there. It may just take a bit of time.

Daryl

 

[johnnyi]

"Well they certainly wern't made from Copper, which it would seem Daryl's piece is."

You seem to be able to deduce an alloy from a scan S.S. , which is a remarkable talent, particularly when the object appears differently in different scans, and when coppers and bronzes can appear very close whern cleaned. The fact is the links say specifically "copper alloy", which includes any number of compositions (including bronze) and is often a term used when someone wants to describe a copper based metal with out knowledge of ther particular percentages. We use the term with coins very often when they appear to be copper. Considering that but a moment ago "Pilgrim's badges were always lead", maybe it's a a wee bit premature to eliminate copper with such words as "certainly weren't' until we know exactly what copper alloy was being mentioned in those links. .

 

[BioProfessor]

it has a brown patina. Not green. No bronze disease. Pretty sure it is copper. Might be close to brass but not bronze.

Daryl

 

[Silver Searcher]

Makes one think though. Just wish I could find an example of a metal one that is line engraved. All the ones I have seen have been figures in relief.

Makes for a good investigative exercise wouldn't you say?

Thanks for the help and comments.

We'll get there. It may just take a bit of time.

Daryl

Daryl....

if your find had been made from Bronze, I would have suggested perhaps a Ecciesiastical plaque from a Church, here's one found from a Church.

SS

 

[BioProfessor]

I agree but again the figures are in relief and not lines carved into the metal. And it is not meant to be used for printing.

Just more fun, fun, fun.

Thanks for the help.

Daryl

 

[Silver Searcher]

"Well they certainly wern't made from Copper, which it would seem Daryl's piece is."

You seem to be able to deduce an alloy from a scan S.S. , which is a remarkable talent, particularly when the object appears differently in different scans, and when coppers and bronzes can appear very close whern cleaned. The fact is the links say specifically "copper alloy", which includes any number of compositions (including bronze) and is often a term used when someone wants to describe a copper based metal with out knowledge of ther particular percentages. We use the term with coins very often when they appear to be copper. Considering that but a moment ago "Pilgrim's badges were always lead", maybe it's a a wee bit premature to eliminate copper with such words as "certainly weren't' until we know exactly what copper alloy was being mentioned in those links. .

Read my post Jonnyi...were did I use the word always and thanks for the compliments of reconizing the difference from Copper and Bronze, proberbly comes from handling thousands of Ancient relics made from Bronze

SS

 

[IronSpike]

Could the disk be an old copper mirror?

 

[BioProfessor]

Too small. Remember they use the metric system in Europe. The scale is cm. Sorry 'bout that.

When I sent it to anyone while I was there, it has to be in cm. Forgot I was back I guess.

Daryl