Information on RMS Republic ...

[allen_idaho]

It was my understanding that all of the gold being shipped out of New York was to be sent to the Bank of France solely for the purpose of the redemption of Treasury bonds sold in 1904. From what little I've read about the Russian Loan, at least. I didn't see any mention of gold going directly to Russia.

You are right about the Carmania. A bit of digging shows she arrived in New York from Liverpool on January 18 and then departed on January 21st for Gibraltar, Naples, Genoa, Alexandria and Fiume.
While the Republic is listed as leaving January 22nd for the Azores, Madeira, Gibraltar, Genoa, Naples and Alexandria.

 

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[imagixx]

Hello Allan, Of course I'm right :-) If you want to easily dig into a lot of raw research, for free, my website Treasure of the R.M.S Republic has quite a bit. But, again, that was my early work. The newest work in my book The Tsar's Treasure is really, if I say so myself, quite spectacular. I did like, in particular, my identification of another secret shipment in September, 1905 - $22 million to Paris - which I mentioned in a previous post in this thread. A lot of the raw data is there, particularly for background, at the website.

There are a few articles talking about gold going directly to St. Petersburg, here http://www.rms-republic.com/details_loading.html#theoryship Again, of the $240 million 1909 bond, $150 million was to repay the 1904 loan coming due in May 1909. The $90 million in new money was to be applied to Russia's 1909 budget.

Thanx for your continued interest.

 

[seekerGH]

Didnt they say there was a few tons of Army Gold on the SS Central America?

All these tons of gold laying around...surprised there is any left.

 

[imagixx]

Didnt they say there was a few tons of Army Gold on the SS Central America?

All these tons of gold laying around...surprised there is any left.

I believe the support for the Army gold aboard SSCA consists of one document whose authenticity cannot be established - the original cannot be located in any archival repository. I utilized the Records of the Accounting Officers of the Department of the Treasury, Fourth Auditor (Navy Auditor), Records of the Paymasters’ Division (Record Group 217), Entry 811, Navy Accounts, Alphabetical Series (by Paymaster’s name - you first have to identify the names of the individual ship's paymasters to find their reports) to conclusively prove the $800,000 Navy monies shipment. These were the series of reports submitted by the individual Atlantic Fleet Paymasters and had never been reviewed by anyone. These records were most likely NOT accessible to the public at large until they were accessioned by NARA, decades after the events. The DOJ even filed a claim for the loss of this gold in my admiralty action, US District Court, District of Massachusetts. We litigated with them for years and only recently had their claim dismissed with prejudice. We now own RMS Republic, and everything aboard. All future claims are barred, and we have injunctive relief against the world from any interference with our recovery.

 

[Salvor6]

Other than the gold, aren't there other artifacts of value like pottery, personal affects, etc.?

 

[imagixx]

$365,000 in passenger claims were filed in the Harter Act Limitation of Liability proceeding. Again, under the Harter Act, you could not file a claim for the loss of gold, silver, diamonds, jewelry. Republic was called the "millionaire's ship." Passengers were told to leave their possessions in their cabins and could access them after they towed the ship back to NY. And the passengers had packed for an extended stay in the Mediterranean. So, there will be a lot of valuables about which, today, we have only an inkling.

 

[akflatlander]

Captain Martin!

Loved the show, even for all the tv dramatization/cliffhangers, and I loved the book. I really like your flat out data/document assault when people question you or the story.

Have you looked into the uss grunion at all? BOOK REVIEW - Fatal Dive: Solving the World War II Mystery of the USS Grunion | Naval Historical Foundation It's one of the rabbit holes your material sent me down. Totally unrelated, but a pretty strong case of the navy hiding wreck locations.

Anyways... Another rabbit hole started with the steamship arabia. Please tell me you've put something in your will about a museum, if you haven't already planned one out, in case you pass before the goodies are pulled up.

One last thing, actually related to your ship; What do you think about the story of the titanic's sinking being so similar to one written long before the wreck - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futility,_or_the_Wreck_of_the_Titan
Combine that with all the theories people have about the federal reserve having something to do with the titanic disaster, and my paranoid mind is on overload...


ignore the haters and please keep doing what you're doing, it's seriously one of the most interesting/enthralling stories I can think of in recent years. No movie, book, tv show, etc has lead me to wanting/finding more similar content. Industrial scale treasure hunting is just awesome to see in pictures, and even more so when there's potential for it to keep playing out in front of you.
thanks for that

 

[imagixx]

Thx akflatlander for the well wishes, and for watching. Republic has something similar here, too. As you mentioned, there was a book written in 1898 regarding a ship named Titan which was lost in collision with an iceberg on her maiden voyage. See:http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titanic_premonitions.shtml Republic, too, parallels Titanic in this respect as well. A 1906 book The Golden Greyhound concerns a secret shipment of $50 million of gold aboard the vessel Olympiad shipped from New York to support a Russian Bond issue, to be transferred to the Russian warship Czarovitch (! p. 310). One of the characters has accompanied the gold for fear of shipwreck. The plot, here, however, is a story to foil the gold's theft. See: http://www.archive.org/details/goldengreyhound00tilt . Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. Now, wait until we can do some serious work on the wreck, planned for this summer!

 

[imagixx]

No more challenges? Stand them up and I'll knock them down. The most difficult part of the RMS Republic story was not finding the wreck, the myriad of legal challenges including the claims of interlopers, major banks and the US Government itself, the personal setbacks, nor will it be recovering the cargoes. All of these were substantial and frequently insurmountable goals of other treasure hunts. The most difficult part and my greatest triumph was proving the cargoes. The RMS Republic treasure will dwarf all previous treasure recoveries, the largest treasure ever lost at sea. Don't believe me? (Shameless plug), then read my book The Tsar's Treasure. Incidentally, you must pay attention. The cargoes we've identified, the $800,000 US Navy monies shipment, the Russian State Bank's $3 million 30 day below market 1.5% interest loan - don't come to 40 tons of gold. But, a $25 million shipment in double eagles - does ... Research is always going forward.

 

[Darren in NC]

So what's the plan of recovery, Martin? I have no reason to doubt your conclusions. But getting to the stowage areas is no walk in the park. Will you use current tech to cut into the wreck to said areas, or try to recover by diving? Sorry, I haven't watched the show or read the book, so you may have covered your plans there. I know a WW1 era wreck should be long collapsed by now. Peace.

 

[imagixx]

We plan to strip down about 150 linear feet of the ship, if necessary, to the sea bed - about $10 million for 100 days. Of course, once the gold is seen - debt financing doesn't become a problem. We believe we can do that in 30 days. This will be a DSV, 250+ ton crane, articulated grabs, two work rated ROVs, saturation diving - the usual suspects.

 

[allen_idaho]

Except, after that $10 million is spent, what happens if there is no gold found?

 

[seekerGH]

Except, after that $10 million is spent, what happens if there is no gold found?

Sounds like a repeat of the TT adventure.

Reading through this thread, it would appear that any gold would be sovereign. It also appears suspect that if this was US Navy pay, or for a loan, that there would be some record of a loss or a claim. Looking at the way the Navy swooped in on the rumors of gold on the SS Central America, why or have they not filed a claim?

Is there a copy of the Admiralty Arrest available somewhere?

Looking at the $10 million for 100 days, or $100K per day. That seems a bit light if one is proposing sat diving, a stationary support vessel, and grapple capability. What is the depth of the wrecksite?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Agreed. More like $100,000,000 in ten days.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[imagixx]

Except, after that $10 million is spent, what happens if there is no gold found?

You lose. There's always a risk return. Want zero risk? Buy treasury bonds.

 

[imagixx]

Sounds like a repeat of the TT adventure.

Reading through this thread, it would appear that any gold would be sovereign. It also appears suspect that if this was US Navy pay, or for a loan, that there would be some record of a loss or a claim. Looking at the way the Navy swooped in on the rumors of gold on the SS Central America, why or have they not filed a claim?

Is there a copy of the Admiralty Arrest available somewhere?

Looking at the $10 million for 100 days, or $100K per day. That seems a bit light if one is proposing sat diving, a stationary support vessel, and grapple capability. What is the depth of the wrecksite?

Good questions. The US Government filed a claim in our action for the loss of their gold. After years of litigation, they have been dismissed with prejudice, we have been awarded ownership to the ship, her cargoes, passenger and crew effects, essentially everything other than the Government's food stores. The Court also barred all future claims and has issued injunctive relief against the world from any interference with our recovery. The depth is 220 - 270 FSW. The $10 million includes contractor speculation/participation and anticipates future media revenues to offset risk. Older court filings, including the US Government's claim, can be found at RMS Republic - Legal . Newer filings and orders are available in the court file, and of course we will provide those as well to bona fide, vetted potential investors.

As for the "TT (mis)Adventure," Tommy Thompson was a great engineer, a visionary for deep water salvage but, he was not a businessman. He too considered Republic as a possible target, but could not prove her cargo; he then selected SSCA. Bob Evans, Thompson's researcher and chief scientist, is on board with us as well.

Additional research can be found in my book The Tsar's Treasure. We also have conclusively proven the $800,000 US Navy shipment - now our property, supra. Our internal whitepaper on that cargo is also available.

Ultimately, the greatest challenge to recover Republic's treasures "beyond most men's wildest dreams" will not have been finding the wreck, the decades of legal challenges from interlopers, putative savors, major banks and the US Government, or ultimately recovering her cargoes - it will have been proving her cargoes.

 

[allen_idaho]

Pull back the reins cowboy, you have not proven anything. You have strongly theorized that gold exists. That is it. Actually seeing some gold will prove your theory.

 

[imagixx]

Pull back the reins cowboy, you have not proven anything. You have strongly theorized that gold exists. That is it. Actually seeing some gold will prove your theory.

You haven't read my book or seen our research. The US Navy money is there. The insurance losses for personal property are real. The Russian gold is most likely there. You don't have to see things to prove that they exist, cowboy.

proof

noun 1. evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

2. anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?


3. the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.


4. the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.

5. Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.

6. the effect of evidence in convincing the mind.

Our recovery will only validate our proof.

As verbs the difference between validate and prove is that validate is to render valid while prove is to demonstrate that something is true or viable; to give proof for or prove can be (proove).

 

[Old Bookaroo]

I did not know the US Navy filed a claim for part (or all?) of the Central America treasure. Guess I need to re-read the book.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo, CM

 

[imagixx]

I did not know the US Navy filed a claim for part (or all?) of the Central America treasure. Guess I need to re-read the book.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo, CM

The US Government filed a claim in our RMS Republic action for all the gold aboard. After years of litigation, they have since been dismissed with prejudice.