JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[Frankn]

You claimed to have skimmed over the "original starter thread," whatever that means, as opposed to skimming "the original post."

Well deducer let me simplify it for you.
Original means first and only.
Starter means the beginning.
Thread means a topic.
I am sorry if you weren't satisfied with me correcting your mistake.
You don't seem to take being corrected lightly.
Frankn

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Cactus lover: I am curious as to what stories could be irrefutable ie. be guaranteed as correct 100 % ??

 

[deducer]

Well deducer let me simplify it for you.
Original means first and only.
Starter means the beginning.
Thread means a topic.
I am sorry if you weren't satisfied with me correcting your mistake.
You don't seem to take being corrected lightly.
Frankn

I believe there is a big difference between a "thread" and a "post."

You did not say you skimmed over the "original post," you said you skimmed over the "original thread."

 

[gollum]

Frankn,

Please feel free to keep posting colorful pictures, as long as there is something else in the post regarding the subject at hand. I get tired of page after page of nothing but text and advertisements. Also, thanks for linking to my website. Yes, now that he has come forward and written a book on the subject (including the 82 pounds of gold bars), I can finally come out and say that my friend in Tucson, Ron Quinn is the man (along with his brother and two good friends) that found it.

SEARCHING FOR ARIZONA'S BURIED TREASURES


mIKE

 

[Oroblanco]

Long reply, extra coffee alert

Cactusjumper wrote:

Roy,
<I wrote earlier>

"Several interesting points about this report, the one that jumps out at me being that it is found IN A CAVE, just as we find that father Kino concealed the treasures of the church during the 1695 Pima uprising..."

Just wondering.......did you find any evidence that other Orders also might have hidden "church treasures" in bad times, or are the Jesuits the only ones with this damning secretive habit?

Did you read what Father Kino might have done with these church treasures........ after the trouble passed?

Hope all is well with you, Beth and the pups

　
Yes of course other priests would hide the "church ornaments" in times of danger, I know of several similar examples from NM that could be hunted up if necessary. Not sure I get the point you are driving at here. Are you claiming that the Jesuits were NOT secretive?

If memory serves, Kino returned the church valuables to his church after the trouble was over. Are you missing the point here? The Jesuits were literally thrown out of all of the Spanish colonies in 1767-68. If they or their mission Indians had any chance to conceal the wealth that had been accumulated, where would the most logical place be to hide it? To my thinking we should look at what they did in previous examples - or are you thinking that I was trying to say that Kino hid the church treasures of Dolores in 1695 and NEVER returned them? I think that Keller returned the church valuables to Tubac after the 1751 revolt just as Kino did in 1695. But in 1767, the Jesuits were gone for a long time afterward, anything hidden in the expulsion was very likely not recovered and returned to the missions. We have the example of San Xavier del Bac in which it is the Indians themselves who concealed the impressive silver, and brought it out on the return of the Jesuits, but again concealed it during the Civil war and remains lost today.

　
Cactusjumper also wrote

One other thing........No sources were cited for those stories. Just thrown against the literary wall to see what would stick

Hmm lets see,

• We have posted evidence that the Jesuits owned and operated mines (plural);
• that they were probably the most wealthy organization in Mexico, if not the entire world by the time of their expulsion,
• that father Kino and father Keller both chose to hide the "ornaments of the church" in CAVES in times of trouble,
• that the ornaments of Jesuit churches were often very rich silver and gold objects especially in South America, and
• previous examples of where Jesuit treasures were discovered hidden in a cave as in the Sardegna example. Thrown against the literary wall to see if it would stick?

　Do you doubt that there were indeed French soldiers living in Peru circa 1898 perhaps?

The government of Peru asked for a French military mission which was established in 1896, and a new school or training center was established in 1898. The French had military trainers and advisors in Peru right up to WW 1, they were withdrawn during that war, then returned and remained in Peru until 1941 when the US sent a military training mission to replace the French whom were again withdrawn due to a major war. One of the French military schools was established in Lima, which as you know has a very beautiful Jesuit church, richly ornamented with gold; Lima has a number of mines in the area surrounding it so the source of the gold/silver would not be far to hunt for a source.

　
Or do you still hold that there were no Jesuit mines, nor the amassed wealth? Do you concede that in at least two documented instances, Jesuit padres concealed "church ornaments" in caves during times of danger? If you do concede that it did happen at least on two occasions, what grounds do you propose that we should hold the newspaper article in such doubt, when it reports that an impressive treasure, not in the mega-bazillions, was found by French soldiers in Peru? Do you think that the Jesuit church in Lima could not have had such a treasure to hide, when they were expelled, or that French soldiers could not find it, or..? Thanks in advance.
Oroblanco

Coffee refill?

　
　
　

 

[Oroblanco]

A shot of the main altar in the Jesuit church of San Pedro in Lima, Peru:


The exterior:


Still think this Jesuit church, located near a French military mission in the same city, could not have had a treasure of $400,000 hidden in a cave?

 

[Frankn]

The deeper I read into this, I see a pattern. It appears that the Indian tribes were actually uprooted and moved to new locations to be closer to the missions (and probably the mines). I just noticed the Jesuits moved the Jova Nation Indians from Chamada to Santo Tomas. Perhaps this could be a clue as to where the mines are.
Frank

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I don't believe Peru is Mexico.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Roy,

I don't believe Peru is Mexico.

Take care,

Joe

Come on Joe,

Those Jesuits in Peru are the very same Order that was in Mexico. What they did in one place, they did EVERYWHERE they were. Doesn't the fact that they were suppressed in every part of the world they served in, for almost exactly the same thing every time? Political Shenanigans, Attempted Assassinations, Fomenting Public Riots (basically working in opposition to whatever ruler their area of operation had if that ruler opposed their ideology).

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

No comment necessary. Some of the Vatican holdings

 

[Frankn]

No comment necessary. Some of the Vatican holdings


View attachment 1105827

Isn't that odd, how they are stacked? Because the fork openings are on the side, like they were stacked back to front but the ones in the back are partially filled?
Frank
PS: Maybe the back of the picture is the front!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Frankn,you may be assured that they are filled and more.

 

[cactusjumper]

Frankn,you may be assured that they are filled and more.

Don Jose,

I know where that picture was taken and it was not, of course, at the Vatican. Can you tell us how you confirmed the picture is of "Vatican gold"?......(Source??)

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Another version...........one of many used to illustrate various articles

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/226188/images/537812_638438836170242_1367094501_n.jpg

[url]http://www.cnbc.com/id/44343442#.

http://www.wallstreetmanna.com/2009/11/hsbc-to-mom-and-pop-take-your-gold.html
[/URL]

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Yep my old friend 'cactus' vouched for it. Drink yer coffee !

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

Don Jose,

I know where that picture was taken and it was not, of course, at the Vatican. Can you tell us how you confirmed the picture is of "Vatican gold"?......(Source??)

　

I realize that this question was directed to mi compadre Don Jose, but perhaps I can shed some light on this shadowy corner?

The main depository for the Vatican's gold is the U.S. Federal Reserve, while medals and precious coins (valued at close to 9.9 million euros) are kept in IOR vaults.

<emphasis by me>
source:
Vatican bank issues detailed report, including where it stores its gold

　
You can read the official report for yourself, at:
http://www.ior.va/Portals/0/Content...s/dtg389!stpod45/IOR_AnnualReport_E_2013.pdf

The Vatican Bank: The Most Secret Bank In the World
[URL]http://www.forbes.com/sites/r...-bank-the-most-secret-bank-in-the-world/[/URL]
Some rather shadowy, unsavory activities on the record of the Vatican bank over the years.

On October 21, 1946, the U.S. State Department received a Top Secret report from US Treasury Agent Emerson Bigelow.[8][9] The report, released by the U.S. government finally in 1997, established that Bigelow received reliable information on the matter from the American Office of Strategic Services (OSS) or CIC intelligence officials of the US Army.[10] The document, referred to as the "Bigelow Report", was declassified on December 31, 1996, and released in 1997.

　
The report asserted that in 1945, the Vatican had confiscated 350 million Swiss francs in Nazi gold for "safekeeping," of which 150 million Swiss francs had been impounded by British authorities at the Austro-Swiss border. The report also stated that the balance of the gold was held in one of the Vatican’s numbered Swiss bank accounts. Intelligence reports, which corroborated the Bigelow Report, also suggested that more than 200 million Swiss francs, a sum largely in gold coins, were eventually transferred to Vatican City or to the Institute for Works of Religion (aka the Vatican Bank), with the assistance of Roman Catholic clergy and the Franciscan Order.[11][12][13]

source Wiki, but citing other reports, none of which are now available online. And of course the Vatican denies all of this.
Nazi gold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

　
This report is just the official Vatican bank, not necessarily the holdings of the Vatican in total. I hope this helps answer your question.

　
I hope that you are now doing well and have NO recurring health issues, don't forget we need you around for quite a while yet! Take it easy and if Smoky is awake, please give him an extra ear scratch for me?
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Frankn]

Is anybody looking for the Jesuit mines?
There was a main mission called "Movas" it was located at 28degrees lat, 266degrees 5' long.
It controlled a mine called Rio Chico located 4 leagues (10.08 miles) West of Movas.
Frank

 

[Rawhide]

Hi frankn, I look for those Jesuit holes. I try to see what others like gollum has posted, and have found it. There seems to be a Aztec and Jesuit markings that go hand in hand with what I am finding. Hundreds of years of sand blowing and water freezing and busting rock has left little to be found. I get excited every time I revisit a old site. Wish I had a way to look through 100 feet of rock. One thing I look for is backfill in the form of small rocks that create a slick surface. Found in between two monuments of opposites and at a angle in a increment of 15 to 22 degrees. So who had it right, the Aztec and their caves. Who taught who about Solomons ways. Why is Phoenician markings are also being found. Yes this executes me. Not only is the legend is here, but science backs it up. Most folks don't follow me, but that's OK. I can follow most of you.

 

[John_Arizona]

Hi frankn, I look for those Jesuit holes. I try to see what others like gollum has posted, and have found it. There seems to be a Aztec and Jesuit markings that go hand in hand with what I am finding. Hundreds of years of sand blowing and water freezing and busting rock has left little to be found. I get excited every time I revisit a old site. Wish I had a way to look through 100 feet of rock. One thing I look for is backfill in the form of small rocks that create a slick surface. Found in between two monuments of opposites and at a angle in a increment of 15 to 22 degrees. So who had it right, the Aztec and their caves. Who taught who about Solomons ways. Why is Phoenician markings are also being found. Yes this executes me. Not only is the legend is here, but science backs it up. Most folks don't follow me, but that's OK. I can follow most of you.[/QUOTE]

I broke through the 18" adobe 'backfill' in this Cave, you can see the seated Priest looking at that side of the wall and other interesting marking around this cave.


I do have a link to share as it's concerning 'missions' - floorpans etc. Thanks -JA
Search Results: "spanish missions" - Prints & Photographs Online Catalog (Library of Congress)

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Frankn, the pueblo of Movas exists still , with a paved road. Go,Go. Here is an older map of the region.


View attachment Movas, 1966.jpg