Legend vs Realitiy

[wrmickel1]

IMHO, the stone maps were made in 1751. The date is written on one of the cross stone map.
Was the year of the Pima revolt against Spaniards, a revolt supported in the background by the Jesuits.

There not the same maps. The Cross Stone maps stand on there own.

babymick1

 

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[txtea]

I'm just glad that I'm sitting on my Royal Throne while reading the last few pages.
Some of these "theories" are overthinking at it's best. Keep it simple.

 

[somehiker]

IMHO, the stone maps were made in 1751. The date is written on one of the cross stone map.
Was the year of the Pima revolt against Spaniards, a revolt supported in the background by the Jesuits.

I once had similar thoughts Marius, based on the replicas I was gifted by Jim Hatt. However, the best photo I have of the original does not clearly establish that marking as (1751), although it could be 1752 I suppose. Hard to say for sure.

More here: https://www.nps.gov/tuma/learn/historyculture/pima-uprising-of-1751.htm

 

[Blindbowman]

I once had similar thoughts Marius, based on the replicas I was gifted by Jim Hatt. However, the best photo I have of the original does not clearly establish that marking as (1751), although it could be 1752 I suppose. Hard to say for sure.

More here: https://www.nps.gov/tuma/learn/historyculture/pima-uprising-of-1751.htm

where do you think i went the year i was band from here i was over talking with Jim ...lol don't you think if the 1847 is not a date why would the 1751 be any different ..? now look at the two numbers side by side 1847/ 1752 .see i once told Jim that the stone maps no long fit the area they were meant to show ..much the same as Joe R i had real answers, i just didn't know what they meat yet

 

[somehiker]

From that photo....

 

[somehiker]

Might be the "PEDRO" has something to do with this person....
https://www.nps.gov/tuma/learn/historyculture/pedro-chihuahua.htm

And for any wondering what might be under the "PEDRO" out there....
A closer view taken in the direction of the arrow.....

 

[somehiker]

I'm just glad that I'm sitting on my Royal Throne while reading the last few pages.
Some of these "theories" are overthinking at it's best. Keep it simple.

A hot dog is simple, but a buffet is more interesting.

Your choice.

 

[markmar]

Might be the "PEDRO" has something to do with this person....
https://www.nps.gov/tuma/learn/historyculture/pedro-chihuahua.htm

And for any wondering what might be under the "PEDRO" out there....
A closer view taken in the direction of the arrow.....

Is quite possible to be the same Pedro written on the stone map. Pedro's sacrifice was a Domino's principle act, to keep the treasure safe from Spaniards.
Like Alan said, greed and blood are the roots of the curse which changes targets in the course of the years. And what remained after all those conspiracies and lies? Only lost treasures and mines of all who have done them.

 

[Blindbowman]

it is one thing to have a location to be put to stone, its another for that location to stay the same for more then 200-300 years .. all things change ...land marks weather ,trails, cultures .. history ,evidence , the written word as well as the tangible spoken folklore.. that's the difference between Legend vs Reality !

 

[somehiker]

it is one thing to have a location to be put to stone, its another for that location to stay the same for more then 200-300 years .. all things change ...land marks weather ,trails, cultures .. history ,evidence , the written word as well as the tangible spoken folklore.. that's the difference between Legend vs Reality !

The fires and flood erosion has more recently made many changes as well.

 

[somehiker]

Is quite possible to be the same Pedro written on the stone map. Pedro's sacrifice was a Domino's principle act, to keep the treasure safe from Spaniards.
Like Alan said, greed and blood are the roots of the curse which changes targets in the course of the years. And what remained after all those conspiracies and lies? Only lost treasures and mines of all who have done them.

Which would still leave "MIGUEL"s true identity unattributed so far.

A curse ? Perhaps directed at only those who would damage or steal from the site ......apparently their friends and family as well....

 

[markmar]

Which would still leave "MIGUEL"s true identity unattributed so far.

A curse ? Perhaps directed at only those who would damage or steal from the site ......apparently their friends and family as well....

IMO, the " curse " come directly from those who are protecting and are worshiping the site, if someone is cought " stealing " without permission. Βecause there is a little difference to steal a bread because someone is hungry vs to steal a car because someone is lαzy to walk. In both circumstances is better to ask than to steal.
Now , the " curse " to friends and family would come indirect as a result of how someone would handle the items who was able to " steal ".
There also exist and the psichological curse which is tied to everything goes wrong after someone think he has visited a holy site or as a result of something he did wrong to someone or to something. Coincidences and geneological issues don't should be tied to a curse.

The " Miguel " name I believe is attributed to Archangel Michael. They didn't use the " San " in front because they believed themselfs as Santos too.

 

[Al D]

The fires and flood erosion has more recently made many changes as well.

Good point, that flood erosion would have carried the stones to where they would have never been found.
there is no way that those stones could have stayed in a group in the Queen Creek area for any length of time, be it from 1847, 1751 or 1689.
just check the records, Queen Creek has had severe floods many times. Any theory which claims those stones were buried or dropped where they were claimed to have been found is seriously flawed.

 

[somehiker]

Good point, that flood erosion would have carried the stones to where they would have never been found.
there is no way that those stones could have stayed in a group in the Queen Creek area for any length of time, be it from 1847, 1751 or 1689.
just check the records, Queen Creek has had severe floods many times. Any theory which claims those stones were buried or dropped where they were claimed to have been found is seriously flawed.

The area just SE of Queen Creek, where they were said to have been found is about 30 ft higher than QC.....even at flood stage.
The terrain is relatively flat and would have made an excellent camp area for Keller's expedition. In fact, there is an ancient Hohokam village ruin not far from there at about the same elevation.

 

[somehiker]

A rock arrangement next to one of the diggings at QC.
And another in the mountains.....

 

[Blindbowman]

none of this matters any more ... good luck to you all ...

 

[somehiker]

none of this matters any more ... good luck to you all ...

Aahh' ri"-vva derr' chi tazza ....lol.

(same to you)

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Turn off your cam first, at least !!!

I'm just glad that I'm sitting on my Royal Throne while reading the last few pages.
Some of these "theories" are overthinking at it's best. Keep it simple.

Well ... what ever you were planning, do NOT try wiping with your device, nor even just the electrons ... that never turns out well from any perspective...

 

[cw0909]

somehiker, interesting book, will prob get the whole e book,havent looked into the
other book you mentioned

a view can read all of part 1
https://flexpub.com/preview/the-elusive-west-and-the-contest-for-empire-1713-1763

ebook, 15$
https://www.google.com/books/editio...r_Emp/0DDqCQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0&kptab=getbook

While he may have heard of the place from his native converts, I doubt Kino was ever there, or had anything to do with the stones. I still think Fr. Ignatius Keller came close in 1743, however, and may have had them in his possession at that time.

from: The Elusive West and the Contest for Empire, 1713-1763
By Paul W. Mapp

and: Papers of the Archaeological Institute of America: American series, Volume 3

 

[Eldo]

Which would still leave "MIGUEL"s true identity unattributed so far.

A curse ? Perhaps directed at only those who would damage or steal from the site ......apparently their friends and family as well....

Miguel was one of James Reavis' kids names.....I believe the other was Pedro.....might be wrong on Pedro....

The Cross Maps are the authentic ones....that the Jesuits used in the old days and Peralta used in the past after them into the 1800s. The Cross Maps show the movement from the base of the climb up to the top camp area. The Cross Map also shows the same shapes that are on the Peralta Stones but in reality they should be called the Reavis Stones. The Peralta Stones are more detailed of course but the rambling codes and misspelled words, combined with the Latin Heart Map inserts are clearly just a fiddler's forgery of the old Cross Stones, with their own twist added. Reavis had them planted after the men were killed and they staged their trail of the locations to make it look like men were escaping Natives.



The same story was crafted in the Beale when they dropped the information and told them not to open it for a decade. This was a surefire way of giving them time to mine, bury, and kill off the men, escaping without anyone knowing their fate.

These all follow the original storyline of the Tesoro de Santa Fe. Their base of operations was there in NM and they would send out missions to the Superstitions to mine, but not to settle, as it was still too dangerous. The men traveled exactly 300 miles from Santa Fe to the Superstitions following the trail that was once known as the old migration route of the Burros.....oddly enough when you are at the base of the trail up the mtn, the area takes the shape of a burro as seen on the Cobollo de Santa Fe Horse Stone Map.



The trail leads through the region and into the valley where at a certain point you were to locate the base of the climb up and use the Cross Maps. There is even a cross at the top of the word Cobollo by the river where the symbols can be seen in the landscape along the river. But later the men that mined the area dumped the Peralta Stones in the valley to elude capture and dress the scene of the murder of their 30 men at Massacre Grounds so it kinda warped the timeline of the maps and the confusion began.


In order to cover up the death of his 30 men by his own hand, Reavis had to try to dress them as Spanish from Santa Fe or from Peralta's family operations afterwards, but wanted to leave them encrypted so anyone with the key could work out their meaning. The Beale was the key....