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Never Never Never Give Up.... Today is the Day...

 

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[Doc4261]

Never Never Never Give Up.... Today is the Day...

Gotta love Mel Fisher. Believed in himself and never gave up till he proved he was right. Inspirational for sure. Same as this. ..

When you have exhausted all possibilities, remember this - you haven't. - Thomas Edison

 

[Liketoresearch]

I know this isn't popular opinion, but I don't believe that the lost Dutchman mine is in Arizona. I do believe the Lost Dutchman and the peralta stones are the same mine but they are written and described by different individuals. I have put all of the Dutchman hints to the test and I now understand why he says no one will find his mine. Its because he knew everyone was looking in the superstition mountains and he knew it wasn't there. I have a very good idea where it is or it least was but it would be hard to get to these days.

 

[azdave35]

I know this isn't popular opinion, but I don't believe that the lost Dutchman mine is in Arizona. I do believe the Lost Dutchman and the peralta stones are the same mine but they are written and described by different individuals. I have put all of the Dutchman hints to the test and I now understand why he says no one will find his mine. Its because he knew everyone was looking in the superstition mountains and he knew it wasn't there. I have a very good idea where it is or it least was but it would be hard to get to these days.

the real reason the clues that are floating around about the ldm lead nowhere is because most of these clues were made up by treasure hunters to throw others off the trail..there isn't one shred of proof that waltz ever told anyone any clues .....and if he did say anything it would be impossible to separate the truth from the lies...there were a few people hovering around waltz's deathbed trying to extract info from waltz....whatever info they got from him was obviously bogus because they all died broke...they looked and never found squat

 

[nobodie]

Liketoresearch
About where do you think it might be?

 

[Liketoresearch]

From the research I've done i believe that is definitely not in AZ. I really would like to give a better description but I also am interested in actually looking for it. Which is another problem for me because I've never done any actual treasure hunting, just research, which puts me at a pretty big disadvantage in my efforts. I also have zero people in my network of friends that have any experience with this topic. So as of now I'm trying to figure out my next process on how to get an actual hunt together.

 

[Liketoresearch]

Skyhawk1251

Waltz hints were actual really good hints if you knew what he was talking about....but no one at the time did. He wasn't lying in the hints he just knew that the only way they would make sense was if he actually showed you where to go I dont think he knew about the peralta stones at the time but deciphering the stones and comparing them with Waltz hints are the exact same mine...i swear I'm not making this up.

 

[skyhawk1251]

From the research I've done I believe that it is definitely not in AZ. I really would like to give a better description, but I also am interested in actually looking for it. Which is another problem for me because I've never done any actual treasure hunting, just research, which puts me at a pretty big disadvantage in my efforts. I also have zero people in my network of friends that have any experience with this topic. So as of now I'm trying to figure out my next process on how to get an actual hunt together.

From what you've written, or more accurately, from what you haven't written, you've given people here nothing to discuss, so I think that you've wasted your time by posting here. I would suggest, though, that unless you have a very specific and precise location targeted for your "hunt," you'll not only be wasting your time, but also your money. By precise location, I mean down to feet and yards, not an area covering even portions of a square mile. As for "how to get a hunt together," there should be no "together" involved, if you're absolutely convinced that your research work is flawless. One tiny spot on the map, one man to go to that spot. Simple. Just do it. On the other hand, if you can't do it alone, you'll need help, and you might find help here only if you're willing to be more open and offer some details about what you want to do.

Waltz hints were actually really good hints if you knew what he was talking about ... but no one at the time did. He wasn't lying in the hints he just knew that the only way they would make sense was if he actually showed you where to go. I don't think he knew about the Peralta stones at the time, but deciphering the stones and comparing them with Waltz hints are the exact same mine ... I swear I'm not making this up.

What you've written above leads me to infer that you've completely solved the mystery of the Peralta stones, plus you've located the LDM based on Waltz's "clues." Keep in mind that hundreds of Dutch hunters have gone before you, and all made similar conclusions. They all came up empty-handed.

 

[coazon de oro]

Only way Waltz could have pulled it off back then, would be if his mule was Pegasses the flying mule.

 

[Liketoresearch]

I apologize for inferring that I had solved the entire mystery, I don't have any hard evidence yet, but like I said I have zero experience in actual mining and I know zero people that have any experience in something like this that could help me attempt this endeavor. I don't believe the mine that he was talking about is in AZ I am 100% sure of that from my research. He may have had a different stash or mine in the superstitions but the deathbed hints were about the original mine that is in a different location.

 

[skyhawk1251]

I apologize for inferring that I had solved the entire mystery. I don't have any hard evidence yet, but like I said I have zero experience in actual mining and I know zero people that have any experience in something like this that could help me attempt this endeavor. I don't believe the mine that he was talking about is in AZ. I am 100% sure of that from my research. He may have had a different stash or mine in the Superstitions, but the deathbed hints were about the original mine that is in a different location. -- Liketoresearch

First of all, I don't agree with your theory that the LDM is not in Arizona, but I'm not going to get into why I disagree, because that could become a voluminous, mega-page discussion. It's not necessary for you to convince me, or anyone else, why you think you are right, nor do I need to convince you why I am in disagreement. You have aroused my curiosity, however, due to some things you've written, and I'd like to see if you are willing to provide some additional information.

I don't think any possible "hunt" you might have planned for any time in the future would be disrupted by you revealing what state you think the LDM is located in. Also, there should be no harm if you reveal how much area your "hunt" might entail, as in acres/miles. A narrow-view Google Earth image, without GPS coordinates, of your targeted "hunt" location would be of interest. I'd like to get an idea of how much of your "100% sure" is really "100% sure." To my way of thinking, "100% sure" means no "hunt" is needed. It should be as simple as "go, dig, find." End of story.

I'm also curious as to what factors would hamper you doing a solo "hunt." Lack of spare time, lack of reliable transportation, lack of funds, lack of wilderness survival experience, dangerous terrain? Any of those things? I can tell you, that if you have gandiose plans of opening a concealed/capped mine, you will need more resources than you can imagine, and I'd advise not even thinking about doing that. Those "resources" could include having a team member along who is licensed to handle and use dynamite. So, if you're not prepared to do your "hunt" full-bore, you have nothing to keep secret here, because you have no chance of getting gold from the LDM.

 

[Liketoresearch]

Skyhawk1251, thanks for the reply and curiosity and also your questions about my hunt experience. Addressing the hunt portion I do have a reasonable amount of funds available to get me started meaning. I have car, money for hiking and survival gear and money for things that I haven't really been able to put a total on because they have to do with mining and I just have no experience in that portion. The other thing slowing down my process comes from 6 years ago when they discovered I had brain cancer. I've recovered but the body strength and endurance is what I'm still working on before I can really feel comfortable with undertaking something like this, but realizing even when I get back to 99% I still have zero hands on experience and I feel like that is very important in making this a successful hunt. I also agree with you about sharing a state of where I believe the mine is but by doing this I would like to have more of a conversation with you about your research and beliefs on the subject. Not to agree or disagree but to get another perspective on this fascinating legend. With that being said I feel very strongly that the mine is in Mexico.

 

[azdave35]

Skyhawk1251, thanks for the reply and curiosity and also your questions about my hunt experience. Addressing the hunt portion I do have a reasonable amount of funds available to get me started meaning. I have car, money for hiking and survival gear and money for things that I haven't really been able to put a total on because they have to do with mining and I just have no experience in that portion. The other thing slowing down my process comes from 6 years ago when they discovered I had brain cancer. I've recovered but the body strength and endurance is what I'm still working on before I can really feel comfortable with undertaking something like this, but realizing even when I get back to 99% I still have zero hands on experience and I feel like that is very important in making this a successful hunt. I also agree with you about sharing a state of where I believe the mine is but by doing this I would like to have more of a conversation with you about your research and beliefs on the subject. Not to agree or disagree but to get another perspective on this fascinating legend. With that being said I feel very strongly that the mine is in Mexico.

not to bust your bubble but if you have no experience in mining or treasure hunting you will never find the mine you seek...and if you are not a mexican citizen i strongly advise you not to go into mexico looking for a mine

 

[skyhawk1251]

... I would like to have more of a conversation with you about your research and beliefs on the subject. Not to agree or disagree, but to get another perspective on this fascinating legend. With that being said I feel very strongly that the mine is in Mexico. -- Liketoresearch

Please, and I can't emphasis this enough, take azdave35's wise advice and don't attempt to do any mining, treasure hunting, or whatever in Mexico. When I clicked on the button to send my last reply, my gut feeling was that your answer was going to be "Mexico" and my gut was right. As far as my research and beliefs on the LDM are concerned, I can only say that I give Bicknell's newspaper articles the most credibility, because they provided the earliest "professional" accounts of the mine's existence. Everything after that loses credibility, due to the passage of time and the rehashing of what someone has already written. With every book that is written, the "truth" is diluted. Waltz's "clues" mostly amount to nothing more than the fictitious saloon ramblings of an old man. I know human behavior too well, and I know how some people are endless sources of "hot air" when they are drunk. As of today, I would have to say that the LDM is based on fact, but Waltz liberally embellished his tale of the mine with whiskey-fueled fiction.

Let me know if and when you feel up to putting your body strength and endurance to a test, and I can suggest a destination -- not in Mexico -- that will prove if you are ready for more challenging things. I can discuss all that through Private Messages. Very sorry to hear about your bout with cancer, by the way.

 

[Liketoresearch]

Skyhawk1251 and azdave35 thanks for the advice, I haven't made any plans on mining anything yet, ive been researching everything to see exactly what is allowed in the country. I know its not the safest thing and its not something I would do without looking into all my options first. Skyhawk1251 could I share some of what I believe the stone maps tell with you in a private message?

 

[skyhawk1251]

Skyhawk1251 could I share some of what I believe the stone maps tell with you in a private message? -- Liketoresearch

Thank you for the offer, but I have to decline. I consider the Peralta Stone Maps to be an imaginative fabrication of Travis Tumlinson, nothing more. They do, however, seem to be partially based on the Tesora Mappa, which could be historically authentic. The additions to the Tesora Mappa, depicted on the Stone Maps, are purely Tumlinson's creative doodlings. Tumlinson didn't have enough genious in him to create something totally from his own mind, so he borrowed from the Tesora Mappa to get his creative juices flowing.

The Peralta Stone Maps are an excellent example of the old saying, "people believe what they want to believe." Take a look at The Lost Dutchman Lies, a book written by Danny A. Adams. It's available free-of-charge at Google Books, and can be downloaded using Google Books Downloader. In his book, Danny mixes together Ted DeGrazia's buried art trove, the Peralta Stone Maps, and Jacob Waltz's "clues" to the LDM for a wild, confusing search for something in the Superstition Mountains. I write "something" because as I read through the book the "something" Danny is searching for changes, due to his own mind becoming confused by his "logic." Danny's book demonstrates to me what has happened to hundreds of Dutch hunters; their "logic" defeated them.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Thank you for the offer, but I have to decline. I consider the Peralta Stone Maps to be an imaginative fabrication of Travis Tumlinson, nothing more. They do, however, seem to be partially based on the Tesora Mappa, which could be historically authentic. The additions to the Tesora Mappa, depicted on the Stone Maps, are purely Tumlinson's creative doodlings. Tumlinson didn't have enough genious in him to create something totally from his own mind, so he borrowed from the Tesora Mappa to get his creative juices flowing.

The Peralta Stone Maps are an excellent example of the old saying, "people believe what they want to believe." Take a look at The Lost Dutchman Lies, a book written by Danny A. Adams. It's available free-of-charge at Google Books, and can be downloaded using Google Books Downloader. In his book, Danny mixes together Ted DeGrazia's buried art trove, the Peralta Stone Maps, and Jacob Waltz's "clues" to the LDM for a wild, confusing search for something in the Superstition Mountains. I write "something" because as I read through the book the "something" Danny is searching for changes, due to his own mind becoming confused by his "logic." Danny's book demonstrates to me what has happened to hundreds of Dutch hunters; their "logic" defeated them.

Is it possible .... even so remotely ... that defeat is the result of non existence?

 

[skyhawk1251]

Is it possible ... even so remotely ... that defeat is the result of non-existence?

Not only possible, but maybe even probable. And logic applied to something that is false doesn't make it true.

 

[Idahodutch]

Not only possible, but maybe even probable. And logic applied to something that is false doesn't make it true.

If everybody is going to express their thoughts as to
why the LDM has stayed eluded .... I do not consider it a defeat for someone to explore, and see what may be out there.
More like living life. Life has all kinds of cards to deal out.

That said, I would suspect that a lack of applied logic would tend to sidetrack.
Lack of patience, best guess sort of stuff creeps in..... then of course people (myself included) start to see puzzle pieces that seem to fit. So they check it out .... maybe get sidetracked... maybe not.

Doubting, or not really giving the clues an honest effort.... that may be the culprit for many.
Forgetting to give yourself a pep talk every so often .... and give up ...

Probably many things contribute.
Even just getting older.

Life, or parts of it, are only a defeat if one says it is

 

[Doc4261]

If everybody is going to express their thoughts as to
why the LDM has stayed eluded .... I do not consider it a defeat for someone to explore, and see what may be out there.
More like living life. Life has all kinds of cards to deal out.


That said, I would suspect that a lack of applied logic would tend to sidetrack.
Lack of patience, best guess sort of stuff creeps in..... then of course people (myself included) start to see puzzle pieces that seem to fit. So they check it out .... maybe get sidetracked... maybe not.

Doubting, or not really giving the clues an honest effort.... that may be the culprit for many.
Forgetting to give yourself a pep talk every so often .... and give up ...

Probably many things contribute.
Even just getting older.

Life, or parts of it, are only a defeat if one says it is

I agree it's easy to dismiss something someone doesn't understand. Sometimes it's just luck and perseverance. Too each their own.