Man fined for using metal hoe on beach. Associated Press

[teklord]

An Alabama youth minister was fined $25 for using a metal garden hoe to dig in the sand with his 7-year old son while on spring break in Panama City Beach Florida. The officer told them they could not use metal tools on the beach. The law was adopted after a rowdy 2015 spring break and was designed to protect against sexual assaults.

Bring a plastic scoop?

Tek

 

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[cudamark]

It became news because the media thought it was an odd story too.

 

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[bigscoop]

Odd, perhaps. But on any given day you can find detectorist on the beach carrying monster sized steel scoops, and even shovels, and digging plenty of holes over a foot deep, and let's not forget the tourist and other beach goers we've all seen doing the same just for fun while at the beach. I don't know of a single one that has ever been approached by an officer or beach patrol bearing complaint. So what brought about this complaint, really? I seriously doubt it was just the hole or the hoe but more like an action/actions that brought about the officer's presence on the scene in the first place.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....we've all seen doing the same just for fun while at the beach......

The genesis of such "holes" rules on any beach, never had it's origin on sand-castles or md'rs. I have heard of this rule (albeit un-enforced) at a certain CA city beach too. And here's what the genesis of such "holes" rules on the beach are probably from: A) there has been tragic stories of kids who dug sand tunnels on the beach. The hole collapses, the kid suffocates. B) College kids out for a rowdy beach bonfire beer party have been known to dig giant pits, and then .... not fill them in.

So the measurement of "2 ft." and things like "metal digging tool" just become arbitrary to have a starting point to determine nuisance vs not.

... But on any given day you can find detectorist on the beach carrying monster sized steel scoops, and even shovels, and digging plenty of holes over a foot deep, ....

Right. On every single beach, it's not-been-an-issue. But here's how you can put a quick stop to this quickly:

Go to the pencil pusher people of whoever administers/governs your local beach. Ask : "Hi. Can I dig monster deep holes, with a metal hoe on the beach ?" Be sure to use words like "lawsuit", "suffocate", "party", "take" and "remove". Then put a contract in front of them to sign for their "permission". After all, you can't be too safe, right ? After all, you wouldn't want to be 'looking over your shoulder', right ? After all, you don't want to 'give your hobby a bad name' , right ?

Then when they say "no", you can start forum threads lamenting your lack of freedoms and silly rules at your beach which had never been a problem up-till-then.

 

[Slingshot]

Spring Break - rowdiness - sexual assault - Where are the cops? Oh, never mind...

Uh, I'd pay the $25 & add in another $25 - er, sir, the fine was only $25 - Yeah, I know, but I intend to use it again later today...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Uh, I'd pay the $25 & add in another $25 - er, sir, the fine was only $25 - Yeah, I know, but I intend to use it again later today...

Yeah, sometimes md'rs make a big stink (and go to great lengths and jump through tons of hoops) for something as silly as this. Eh ? I know a guy who got a $100 ticket for detecting @ a place where it turns out he shouldn't have been (sensitive federal). And in the end, he figured that if THIS was all he had to show for 30 yrs. of md'ing, then .... it was worth it. haha He gladly paid and wrote it off as a fluke.

 

[cudamark]

Odd, perhaps. But on any given day you can find detectorist on the beach carrying monster sized steel scoops, and even shovels, and digging plenty of holes over a foot deep, and let's not forget the tourist and other beach goers we've all seen doing the same just for fun while at the beach. I don't know of a single one that has ever been approached by an officer or beach patrol bearing complaint. So what brought about this complaint, really? I seriously doubt it was just the hole or the hoe but more like an action/actions that brought about the officer's presence on the scene in the first place.

The "oddness" wasn't the digging of holes, or, even the use of metal tools. It was the giving of a citation for doing so that was odd. The media probably didn't realize it either, that you were prohibited from doing something that everyone has done at the beach. I'd write this off as a fluke and not worry about it effecting my detecting hobby there. Don't leave any holes, be courteous to others, and carry on.

 

[bigscoop]

My point was, I'd bet money there was underlying reason why this man with the hoe was approached in the first place. "Something" had to bring this series of events into being in the first place. More often then not these days it's the little details that actually inspired these type of events that we seldom hear about. It seems everyone is too quick to judge "the bad cops" these days. I know many officers and I can honestly say, of those I know, I know that they don't pursue encounters just out of curiosity or to simply display their egos. But it seems everyone is looking for the "bad cop story" today. Pretty sad.....

 

[cudamark]

Yup, it usually takes a complaint, but, not with rookies. Many times they're looking to flex their muscles a bit and can be a pain to deal with.

 

[bigscoop]

Yup, it usually takes a complaint, but, not with rookies. Many times they're looking to flex their muscles a bit and can be a pain to deal with.

But don't "rookies" usually have to spend a certain amount of orientation time with seasoned officers? I mean it's not like they graduate and then get immediately shuffled into an individual patrol situation. At least this is according to the officers I know, a couple of them even part of the continued training, swat, etc. So I think there is a lot of misinformation in many cases, also a lot of folks who are simply going to buck any type of an authority figure. I think on a whole officers do a fantastic job in a less then a fantastic daily situation, it's just that the media is too focused on the current atmosphere that they've largely helped to create. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Xraywolf]

My point was, I'd bet money there was underlying reason why this man with the hoe was approached in the first place. "Something" had to bring this series of events into being in the first place. More often then not these days it's the little details that actually inspired these type of events that we seldom hear about. It seems everyone is too quick to judge "the bad cops" these days. I know many officers and I can honestly say, of those I know, I know that they don't pursue encounters just out of curiosity or to simply display their egos. But it seems everyone is looking for the "bad cop story" today. Pretty sad.....

Not necessarily.
While assuming, I'll assume just the opposite and assume the beach patrol cops, probably cruising around in little dune buggies, were bored stiff and had the eyes wide open for any possible kind of citation they could write.
In lieu of any whiskey chugging obnoxious teens, they picked on a man and his son making sand castles.

 

[bigscoop]

.....I'm fairly certain I'm not assuming. Write the citation, do all the other necessary and required paperwork, take a chance of having to spend a portion of your day off in court, etc. Seems to me the effort was made to avoid writing the citation, just another case of someone asking for a citation.

 

[Xraywolf]

.....I'm fairly certain I'm not assuming. Write the citation, do all the other necessary and required paperwork, take a chance of having to spend a portion of your day off in court, etc. Seems to me the effort was made to avoid writing the citation, just another case of someone asking for a citation.

You said: "I'd bet money there was underlying reason why this man with the hoe was approached in the first place. "Something" had to bring this series of events into being in the first place."

So if you aren't assuming, point me to any factual evidence that supports your contention.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... Seems to me the effort was made to avoid writing the citation, just another case of someone asking for a citation.

Well gee, also consider that: Perhaps the reason that "effort was made to avoid writing the citation", was the reason we all here acknowledge: That it's a silly law (or, at least, not meant to have applied to this situation). Even the LEO probably subconsciously knew this would be silly to give someone a ticket for digging a hole on the beach, or having a metal tool to have done it with. I bet THAT'S the primary reason he wanted to not write the ticket. Because even he knew (albeit perhaps subconsciously, not in a technical sense) that it was silly to apply this to anything other than something dangerous.

As I said before: Put yourself in the shoes of the persons caught on candid camera "pulled over" on a walk/jog trail, for "violating the speed limit" (walking too fast). None of them said "I'm so sorry sir, I'll slow down, please give me a ticket". Instead Funt is met with wide-eyed disbelief like "you're kidding me ?" and "since when ?".

 

[lookindown]

My point was, I'd bet money there was underlying reason why this man with the hoe was approached in the first place. "Something" had to bring this series of events into being in the first place. More often then not these days it's the little details that actually inspired these type of events that we seldom hear about. It seems everyone is too quick to judge "the bad cops" these days. I know many officers and I can honestly say, of those I know, I know that they don't pursue encounters just out of curiosity or to simply display their egos. But it seems everyone is looking for the "bad cop story" today. Pretty sad.....

They have a new law there that prohibits the use of metal tools at the beach....so if they see you using a metal tool, they are going to stop you...you may not get a ticket but they are going to tell you to stop.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.......you may not get a ticket .....

Precisely. And ask yourself "why?". I mean, if it were shoplifting, or going 100 mph in a school zone, etc.... you'd "get a ticket", right ? The fact that a cop wishes not-to-be bothered with this, is because deep down, they too know that it's silly and beyond reason. Barring, of course, someone making a truly dangerous hole (college kids at beer parties, etc....)

 

[gamiller]

4335 views... how much longer will this thread last?

 

[bigscoop]

4335 views... how much longer will this thread last?

....as long as their are folks who hate authority figures.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....as long as their are folks who hate authority figures.

Or who hate ministers

 

[bigscoop]

They have a new law there that prohibits the use of metal tools at the beach....so if they see you using a metal tool, they are going to stop you...you may not get a ticket but they are going to tell you to stop.

I could have made $$$ on this thread.........so there is an "ordinance" (underlying reason) prohibiting metal tools at the beach (a metal hoe) which is why the officer approached the man (the guy breaking that ordinance) and informed him of the ordinance and at which point the man basically challenged that ordinance and acted in defiance and pretty much dared the officer to write him the ticket. Gee......wonder why he got a ticket? And to think, he could have just said, "Ok, no problem, wasn't aware of that ordinance. Thanks for informing me. I'll do as you ask and fill in my hole and put the metal hoe away." Thus avoiding the ticket.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... at which point the man basically challenged that ordinance and acted in defiance .....

Apparently you didn't read the story closely . There was no "ordinance" shown or cited till much later. So that's just the point: They COULDN'T cite any such "ordinance".

So is it "defiance" to say "is there really such a law?". Recall the candid camera stunt comparison (of an equally un-believable supposed "law"). And/or recall the analogy of if a cop comes to you telling you to remove your blue shirt, because it violates the law. You too might be compelled to say "you are joking , right ?"

But sure: if a law/ordinance really exists, then sure, by all means no one should be "defiant". But the way I understood the story, is that the sand-castle persons were not-so-sure a law existed. I mean, let's be honest: Since when haven't kids dug sand castle holes with (gasp) metal shovels ?

Oddly, a supposed "law" for this dastardly act might actually be envisioned by us md'rs. Because we know ALL TOO WELL (as metal detectorists) the rigmarole of "dig" vs "hole" vs "shovel". ONLY because we constantly metal detect. But put yourself in the shoes of a non-md'r, who is simply digging a sand castle. He *might* be thinking "this is a joke, right?" Same reaction as the candid camera people had. And then I can just envision a cop who couldn't answer the question "calling for backups", etc.....