Oak Island: Was something even there.

[Roadhse2]

"10 vessels premised traveling from Cyprus to La Rochelle/ Vessels leaving Cyprus is documented, number is premised by amount of cargo hauled"

First thing you premise is based on what? What tonnage were each one of these ships? That determines amount of cargo they can carry, without knowing that, you cannot premise how many ships at all. Of course ships left Cyprus, it was a port city. Do you have the port/ship logs showing ships and destination? Ships don't just pick up cargo, or anything else and disappear into the night with no port records.

"Join with maybe 8 other ships at La Rochelle/ Having vessels based in La Rochelle is documented, number is premised based on wine trade"


Same as above....

"All 18 leave La Rochelle in early September 1307/ All the vessels in the harbor did leave and they all disappeared"

Here you try to change your unqualified premise into a fact, the number of ships, and that they "did leave" Once again with nothing to back that up....

"premise three leaving Scotland for North America in spring of 1308"

Why not 1? Why not 4? Once again, no information, just made up crap


You want to talk disinformation...your whole theory is based on it.

 

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[ECS]

Another question...

How can anything that is reported to begin rotting when wet within 20 years....be dated at all after laying in and under water for a 1000? What stops this process of rotting for it even to exist?

I call BS on that report if you are also going to pin your theory on coir found and dated to the period of 1100, it would not be in a"rotted condition" it would be gone all together.

How much coir was there in the first place?
Why were only small samples tested if there was an abundance of coir?

 

[lokiblossom]

"10 vessels premised traveling from Cyprus to La Rochelle/ Vessels leaving Cyprus is documented, number is premised by amount of cargo hauled"

First thing you premise is based on what? What tonnage were each one of these ships? That determines amount of cargo they can carry, without knowing that, you cannot premise how many ships at all. Of course ships left Cyprus, it was a port city. Do you have the port/ship logs showing ships and destination? Ships don't just pick up cargo, or anything else and disappear into the night with no port records.

"Join with maybe 8 other ships at La Rochelle/ Having vessels based in La Rochelle is documented, number is premised based on wine trade"


Same as above....

"All 18 leave La Rochelle in early September 1307/ All the vessels in the harbor did leave and they all disappeared"

Here you try to change your unqualified premise into a fact, the number of ships, and that they "did leave" Once again with nothing to back that up....

"premise three leaving Scotland for North America in spring of 1308"

Why not 1? Why not 4? Once again, no information, just made up crap


You want to talk disinformation...your whole theory is based on it.

I can premise anything I want. What I premise from now on is that anybody who wants to intelligently argue my theories I will respond to. Sorry, but this leaves you out R-2.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

Of course it does...

Because you cannot answer the questions so now resort to 'intelligence' to try to slam me...Seems like that same tactic is used whenever someone cannot back up their 'premise' with 'facts' in any debate, the easy out, 'you're not worthy of my time' excuse.

So the unintelligent 'ME' is calling your whole theory BS until you provide some proof of your premises, until then it is all just a fairy tale made up in your 'super intelligent' mind.

Here's the real problem, you are so caught up in your own BS, that you can't see past it to realize it IS BS....and that's no 'premise'

 

[Roadhse2]

Facts as we know them...

Some ships left Cyprus...

Coir was found on Oak Island, dated to 1100...

BINGO !!!!! It MUST be Templars!

Wow...that was easier to solve the whole Oak Island legend than I thought it would be....and here I thought I was just another ******* with no clue...

 

[ECS]

You didn't mention the Scottish Norse!

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

Facts as we know them...

Some ships left Cyprus...

Coir was found on Oak Island, dated to 1100...

BINGO !!!!! It MUST be Templars!

Wow...that was easier to solve the whole Oak Island legend than I thought it would be....and here I thought I was just another ******* with no clue...

Damn bud! You are good. Case solved. What will I watch on TV now? (Sorry couldn't resist. New guy just joining the fun)

I started reading this thread the other day and it went off so many different directions I forgot what I was going to reply to.

Can we go back for some more telephone game? That was too funny!

 

[Roadhse2]

Secret Templar code....

"Agree with what ever I put out there or shut up because I can make up more crap than you can and not be bothered with any factual information"

Anyone else notice that seems to be the pattern with Templar theories?

 

[Robot]

"Click" ...If You Agree...With Me!

Secret Templar code....

"Agree with what ever I put out there or shut up because I can make up more crap than you can and not be bothered with any factual information"

Anyone else notice that seems to be the pattern with Templar theories?

Click if You Agree - is an educational game that helps young people between the ages of 12 and 14 develop the skills and confidence to read and agree to there own thoughts and postings, and terms of use... instead of blindly clicking on the “Roadhse2 agree” button.


Click if You Agree

 

[Roadhse2]

Noticed I "liked" your post Robot? Because I do...those type of games are made for young adults to begin to be able to discern BS from fact..That is a good thing!.

And also to be able to know when someone tries to further their agenda by diverting, over and over, known facts pointed out to them into something else that will fit their agenda until the ones with the known facts finally say to hell with it because the effort expended is not worth the outcome. Prussian Blue is a good example of that...

I will also comment on your using "terms of use" as some sort of veiled threat to have me banned...those type of tactics have been used to good effect by others on this site before, when their own efforts to "win" any debate, at all costs, have not been fruitful. And undoubtedly reflects on the character of the person using that threat or method more so than the person actually banned....Personally, I thought more of you, but you have now shown I was wrong in this assessment, sadly. If I disappear...well, at least man up and let everyone know it was you that were the cause....and continue on unopposed.

 

[Robot]

Please Read All The Comments...Before Posting!

Noticed I "liked" your post Robot? Because I do...those type of games are made for young adults to begin to be able to discern BS from fact..That is a good thing!.

And also to be able to know when someone tries to further their agenda by diverting, over and over, known facts pointed out to them into something else that will fit their agenda until the ones with the known facts finally say to hell with it because the effort expended is not worth the outcome. Prussian Blue is a good example of that...

I will also comment on your using "terms of use" as some sort of veiled threat to have me banned...those type of tactics have been used to good effect by others on this site before, when their own efforts to "win" any debate, at all costs, have not been fruitful. And undoubtedly reflects on the character of the person using that threat or method more so than the person actually banned....Personally, I thought more of you, but you have now shown I was wrong in this assessment, sadly. If I disappear...well, at least man up and let everyone know it was you that were the cause....and continue on unopposed.

Terms of Use was actually on the "Game`s description which you can read by going to the game`website.

How you want to read this into my comment is of your accord.

I apologize for any misunderstandings.

The only "Winner" in any debate is the person who Learned the Most from It!

 

[Roadhse2]

Robot...

Then I will also apologize for my misunderstanding of your post...and while I will debate and be told I am wrong with no problem, things I will not do are 1. take personal insults 2. not react to perceived threats, in real life nor on the internet without coming back with both barrels loaded...It is how I have always been and how I will remain.

No I did not open your game meme/link, no reason to as your message had been made without...so my mistake in taking what you showed as being a threat. Apologies...

let's move on..

 

[Robot]

You Think This Was Brutal,You Should Have been Around for My Franklin Pot Belly Stove

And also to be able to know when someone tries to further their agenda by diverting, over and over, known facts pointed out to them into something else that will fit their agenda until the ones with the known facts finally say to hell with it because the effort expended is not worth the outcome. Prussian Blue is a good example of that...

Franklin Belly Stove

Under the Nolan`s Cross they found a Wrought Iron Stove buried under a 10 ton bolder.

I have tried to tie this to Master Freemason Benjamin Franklin who my Hypothesis states was one of the Founding Fathers of Oak Island.

Boy, was that a Brutal Debate!

That is one Stove You Do Not Want To Open!

 

[Peyton Manning]

do any of the claimed finds exist now? where?

 

[Dave Rishar]

To summarize:

Coir was probably only available in the Middle East ~1300 AD. Coir was probably found in Nova Scotia. The Templars had made numerous trips to the Middle East. The Templars needed to get out of France. The Norse knew the way to Oak Island. The Templars were probably in contact with the Norse. Therefore, the Templars enlisted the Norse to get them to Oak Island.

It works, but a number of assumptions are required in order for it to work. Perhaps we can simplify it a bit. I like simple answers. Let's try this:

Coir was probably only available in the Middle East ~1300 AD. Coir was probably found in Nova Scotia. The Norse had made numerous trips to the Middle East. The Norse had been to Nova Scotia. Therefore, the Norse just did what they were already doing.

The latter is much simpler. Something from the Middle East turned up on Oak Island. The Norse for sure went to the Middle East. The Norse for sure went near Oak Island. The only assumptions that we have to make here are that the Norse kept exploring south (not a huge assumption to make...I'd honestly be very surprised if they hadn't), and that they'd brought coir along with them at some point. I can't prove that, but I can't disprove it either. I can't even make a logical argument against it. This isn't very exciting, but it's not based on a quasihistorical work of fiction from the eighties either. Sometimes history is boring.

I'm still very curious about just how much coir is there, where it's located, and what additional samples would test as. It's that context thing. A handful of small samples with some controversy attached to them are interesting, but not conclusive. Likewise, the dates attached to them (assuming that the controversy surrounding those dates is resolved) are like the dates on found coins: they don't tell us when the items ended up where they were found, but rather when they couldn't have ended up where they were found. Context can provide additional data but it seems to be lacking here.

Assuming that it's all on the up-and-up though, there's a simpler answer. Did I mention that I like simple answers?

 

[gazzahk]

do any of the claimed finds exist now? where?

"Allegedly" - A gold cross, a gold nugget, a gold chain and, a gold coin... as to the where - In the hands of the descendants of the original boys who "allegedly" found the pit and removed 3 treasure chests on the day they found it.

The Blockhouse Blog - The Oak Island Compendium (Gold, legends, and old maps: the story of an Oak Island family's treasure)

 

[gazzahk]

I'm still very curious about just how much coir is there, where it's located

According to this report the answer is heaps....

Believing now that the flooding tunnels were connected to the sea, men scoured the island's shores. At an area known as Smith's Cove, they found a fascinating structure. The company built a temporary dam, called a cofferdam, to uncover a large overlay made of coconut husk, 145 feet wide and the length of space between low tide and high tide. Underneath the coconut husk was a layer of beach stones five feet deep. Beneath the beach stones were five finger-drains constructed of flat stones, converging into a single drain. The coconut husk worked as a barrier against sand to allow water into the drains.
However, soon after the company found the mysterious finger drains, a storm hit and destroyed the cofferdam. The company then decided to dig shafts between Smith's Cove and the Money Pit in an attempt to intercept and divert the seawater away from the Money Pit. However, after failing to reach water in this shaft, and after digging several more, the company ran out of funds and gave up.

Source: The Truro Company Discovers the Finger Drains - How Oak Island Works | HowStuffWorks

referencing this book: https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=yo_xAgAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

 

[Roadhse2]

gazzahk...

Just as an aside to that report, Dunsfield explored the drain they all converged on(even though he called it a well or sump) and found it to be a flat bottomed 24' deep hole with no tunnels or further outlet. The Truro company apparently never got that far in their explorations of it due to the cofferdam breaking and only assumed it was the inlet to the flood tunnels.

So the use of Smith's Cove is still a mystery, but not likely connected to (to me) the treasure story in and of itself. Which leaves the 'why' of anyone else needing such a set up...

 

[gazzahk]

gazzahk...

Just as an aside to that report, Dunsfield explored the drain they all converged on(even though he called it a well or sump) and found it to be a flat bottomed 24' deep hole with no tunnels or further outlet. The Truro company apparently never got that far in their explorations of it due to the cofferdam breaking and only assumed it was the inlet to the flood tunnels.

So the use of Smith's Cove is still a mystery, but not likely connected to the treasure story in and of itself. Which leaves the 'why' of anyone else needing such a set up...

Yep... I agree 100%... I am really looking forward to J.Steeles book arriving and am hoping her answer seems plausible and fits the facts.

Someone went to a lot of effort on that beach... This is probably the real mystery of Oak Island.....

 

[Raparee]

Yep... I agree 100%... I am really looking forward to J.Steeles book arriving and am hoping her answer seems plausible and fits the facts.

Someone went to a lot of effort on that beach... This is probably the real mystery of Oak Island.....

I haven't read Steele's book, but her theory is at least plausible, unlike most of the theories floating around. From what I have heard, though, actual evidence for her claims is scant.