pull tabs and gold.

[bzbadger]

There's a site I came across that I have bookmarked that shows the vdi#s for the ATP and helped me a lot to understand what will show and why. Nice chart made up and is updated by ppl sending in what they found and the # shown. I can't show the site address here, if u want it PM me and I'll send it. Trial and error is one thing but I'll take some data if given.

Get your facts first, then distort them as you please-Mark Twain

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

To put gold rings in perspective, a 14 kt. ring will not always ring up at the same number due to what other metals it is alloyed with. Also its orientation in the soil can affect the numbers. Why its silly to depend on the screen.

So its what its Alloyed with? Not the size of the ring?..Im only asking because i found a 14k Men Band that was maybe 4 grams , and a 14k womans ring that was about 3.5 grams, but the Mens ring was a size 10-11 and it read right under a zinc penny, whereas the Womans ring read dead on a nickel...I do agree not to depend on the screen, as i dig pretty much every signal, but about 80% of my gold rings i have found were found digging the nickel "VDI numbers"..But again...If you want to find gold..You dig all the beeps

 

[Metal Detecting Stuff]

The detector looks at both the conductivity of the metal and the size or shape. Gold is similar in conductivity to aluminum and nickel, that's part of the reason they fall in similar ranges. The size of the ring, thickness of the band, and karat weight all affect the VDI. As Sandman said, different karats have other alloys mixed in with the gold.

Wayne

www.metaldetectingstuff.com

 

[Smudge]

I think the focus on pulltabs and gold is good, but perhaps a bit misdirected. Large gold will fall into the pulltab range, that is certainly true. But smaller gold consistently falls into the "foil" range.

The vast majority of your smaller gold targets tend to be women's jewelry. The majority of the larger gold tends to be men's jewelry.

Now, think for a moment about how much jewelry your average man wears (pulltab range).

Now think about how much jewelry your average woman wears (foil range).

If you really want the gold, it is clear by the law of averages you should be emphasizing your search in the foil range rather than the pulltab range (if you are serious about finding gold, of course you focus on both).

Hope that helps. Best of luck to you in your searches.

 

[Potts]

The best finds are found in the water, if your hunting Parks that many cherry picked it's pull tab time.

 

[bzbadger]

Sandman is right on the alloys, I worked for years managing pawnshops and became very familiar with the good stuff and the bad. Amazing what crap ppl buy thinking its good gold and some of it was so bad it was just heavy plate over pot metal. Ugly thing about beaches etc is the tourist traps sell the junk stuff and lose it on the beach for us to find. Ive picked up more junk jewelry because my machine thought it was the real deal but you wont know till you dig it and that goes with the pull tabs too. My ATP at least gives me a little hint once in awhile with a tone roll or a scratchy sound but I like to raise the coil up and see if it still sounds off at 6" but doesn't always work.

 

[Jeremy S]

In found this 10K gold ring last week. It was a repeatable 60 on my ATP, exactly where pull tabs with the beaver tail bent-in were showing up. Sorry that I don't have a picture of it cleaned up yet.



I have found gold as low as 47 (foil, some nickles, can tabs) and as high as 76 (zinc pennies, some pull tabs, bottle caps from mini liquor bottles).

 

[gerryk]

Has anyone made up a chart of what will show up as what for these machines? There are sheets out there for the x terra line. I havent found any gold but have been told by those that have found it that it can show up anywhere on the scale, it just depends on what it is blended with.

 

[Sandman]

Has anyone made up a chart of what will show up as what for these machines? There are sheets out there for the x terra line. I havent found any gold but have been told by those that have found it that it can show up anywhere on the scale, it just depends on what it is blended with.

I wish it was as simple as that. There is NO LISTS for any detector as to what gold comes in at as even the orientation of a ring in the ground can give different numbers on different days too. In my opinion the only thing a screen is for is to allow the manufacturers to increase the price of the detector so you think your getting more.

 

[gerryk]

I wish it was as simple as that. There is NO LISTS for any detector as to what gold comes in at as even the orientation of a ring in the ground can give different numbers on different days too. In my opinion the only thing a screen is for is to allow the manufacturers to increase the price of the detector so you think your getting more. <img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=881032"/>

There are lists out there for the x terra machines. Yes, a coin can come in slightly higher or lower and the ground can cause it to change. But the numbers are close. To say there is no list or wish it was that simple is crazy. I have a list as do many others. I hunt by sound and yes, i do look art he numbers to see what i am digging and its usually real close.

 

[Jeremy S]

My unofficial list. Keep in mind that these are the repeatable signals. Deep coins tend to jump around and the numbers are usually much lower. I have hunted in many different soil conditions and these numbers can vary quite a bit. These are what I would expect when I'm out coin shooting in the local park with good soil conditions.

Foil seals from bottle: 42-47
Small metal thing from the back of a pin: 50
Can slaw: 45-65 (depending on size, usually jumps around)
Nickles: 50-53
Can Tabs: 50-60 (usually 50-55, lately I have been finding big ones like from a tuna can)
Pull Tabs: 55-65 (usually jumping around a small amount)
Cap from a mini plastic liquor bottle: 67
Zinc penny: 65-75, usually a solid 75 if it haven't corroded much
Silver rings: 70s-80s
Copper Penny: 79-81
Most beer bottle caps (not rusted/corroded): 80-81
Dime:81-82
Quarter: 86/87
Presidential Dollar: 91

Gold rings: 47-76. Since a ring is a concentric object, I would expect a shallow one to be a solid repeatable signal. All the ones that I have found were a good solid signal, but I have found trash objects that were a good solid signal in the same range and even pin pointed the same way.

Just from my experience, around here it would be hard to cherry pick a park for gold as there is so much trash signals that are identical. Quarters and even nickles can be easy to cherry pick. Pennies and dimes are tough if there are a lot of bottle caps, but I can usually differentiate the two when using pin point mode (a cap will show up as a larger target than a coin).

Mix two objects in the same area together, then it is a total crap shoot of what you will find. I have dug pull tab signals before to find two quarters and a few nickles int he same hole. I dug a high 40s signal at a house this summer and pulled out a SLQ sandwiched to a Buffalo nickel.

 

[cdv1]

Depth, soil/sand type, mineralization, target size, target shape, target karat, metals mixed with the gold all make a determination as to what the target will read or sound like. Two gold finds that I have made that were not good signals, first was a 5 gram (approx.) gold grill, tone was right but it sounded trashy AND had a double beep to it due to the shape of the grill (as best as I can determine) IF I would have not dug the double beeping trashy sounding target, I wouldn't have found it. Second was a 57 gram C shaped cuff bracelet 18k, now something with that mass you would think you could hear it from a great distance but this target was tested on an AT Pro, CZ-21, Excal II and a CTX, all had the right tone range and numbers (if applicable) and none of the machines could pick it up over 6" in an air test. IF you hold the bracelet together to make contact by both ends, it can be hit over a foot on all the machines. The original sound was loud but scratchy and tone was in the gold range so I went underwater to see what was there... this bracelet was right under the sand barely covered....

When it comes to gold, there are to many variables that can make it sound like something else, it needs dug to be 100% sure.

Cliff

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

This thread reminds me of when TID first came out, on the very first detectors, in about 1982/83-ish: The dealer came to our club meeting, and set it up on the table for a demonstration. He showed how a gold ring he'd brought read one way. Then he waved a pulltab, and it gave yet a DIFFERENT signal. Foil gave yet a 3rd signal, and nickels yet a 4th signal. Wohoo! Imagine our excitement as we all thought it was finally possible to pass various tabs and aluminum, yet dig gold (provided you dug the *right* tones and TID #s). Several guys in the room ran out and bought that early primitive Teknetics, thinking they were going to dig gold rings till their arms fell off Imagine their surprise, when they discovered that an AWEFULL lot of tabs sound exactly like gold ring, and an aweful lot of gold rings, sound exactly like tabs. Doh!

You see, yes, some gold rings "sound different" (TID, etc..) than certain tabs. Sure. But so too does each tab sound different than the next. And so too does each gold ring sound different from another gold ring. Aluminum and alloyed gold share the same conductivity, on a size-per-size basis. So to show a *particular* gold ring sounds or reads different than a *particular* tab, doesn't mean much, unfortunately.

About the best you can do is play the odds (ring enhancement programs), to avoid certain common recurring junk items (like the certain style/size round tab that recurringly hits in the same TID range). But you can throw such programs out the window, the minute you get into a place where lawn mowers have sliced up tabs and cans. Or places where tabs come in all different sizes and types (there were many different tab weights/sizes over the years). Or places where the beavers tails come disattached, etc...

 

[cdv1]

About the best you can do is play the odds (ring enhancement programs), to avoid certain common recurring junk items (like the certain style/size round tab that recurringly hits in the same TID range). But you can throw such programs out the window, the minute you get into a place where lawn mowers have sliced up tabs and cans. Or places where tabs come in all different sizes and types (there were many different tab weights/sizes over the years). Or places where the beavers tails come disattached, etc...

How true....

 

[Smudge]

There are lists out there for the x terra machines. Yes, a coin can come in slightly higher or lower and the ground can cause it to change. But the numbers are close. To say there is no list or wish it was that simple is crazy. I have a list as do many others. I hunt by sound and yes, i do look art he numbers to see what i am digging and its usually real close.

Gerry. I use a XTerra also. Please believe me when I say "forget the charts". They are of nominal benefit. Believe me, I have tried. We want to dig gold and avoid as much trash as possible, I get that. But you can't do it. It simply won't work. There are too many different alloys used in gold jewlery to give you any kind of meaningful chart. You could avoid one target that is gold becuse it falls outside your chart range and dig a piece of trash next to it because it falls inside your chart range. Talk about frustrating!

Any discrimination you use on the Xterra above "0" will start costing you gold. Very little in the beginning but it becomes increasingly deterimental to your gold hunting efforts. I do not recommend using any discrimination above "5" (the preset discrimination for prospecting mode) when you choose to jewlery hunt.

I know that is absolutely not the answer most people want to hear, but I want to be as honest with you as I can be.

 

[gerryk]

Gerry. I use a XTerra also. Please believe me when I say "forget the charts". They are of nominal benefit. Believe me, I have tried. We want to dig gold and avoid as much trash as possible, I get that. But you can't do it. It simply won't work. There are too many different alloys used in gold jewlery to give you any kind of meaningful chart. You could avoid one target that is gold becuse it falls outside your chart range and dig a piece of trash next to it because it falls inside your chart range. Talk about frustrating! Any discrimination you use on the Xterra above "0" will start costing you gold. Very little in the beginning but it becomes increasingly deterimental to your gold hunting efforts. I do not recommend using any discrimination above "5" (the preset discrimination for prospecting mode) when you choose to jewlery hunt. I know that is absolutely not the answer most people want to hear, but I want to be as honest with you as I can be.

Smudge, I wasnt saying i go by the chart. Is aid there is a chart and numbers are usually off as far as coins. I also know that gold can be all over the place depending on what us used as an alloy. Gold jewelry an be anywhere on the scale of the x terra.
I have the decriminalizing off all the time. I have thought about cutting a couple things out depending on the ground i am detecting, but havent done that yet.

Mostly what i meant is that there is a chart that is out there. Not that its accurate in the real world, but it is out there.

 

[bzbadger]

Guys I have a list that is from another site and a lot of ppl from here have asked for it and I PM it to them. Its a list that ATP owners use to have a guide line on the numbers but also can add in their personal experience finds/numbers which helps others out. If you want the site message me and I'll PM it to u.

Get your facts first, then distort them as you please-Mark Twain

 

[tiderider]

It's some many variables to consider that you still have to dig, I think the best way is not vdi #s , I think the saturated tone of the detector, besides digging ever target thats in the low range, tiderider

 

[RobRieman]

That works fine if your on the beach.