The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[somehiker]

And sometimes for years, with nothing but excuses for failing to produce hard evidence....or even a (original) photo of the "prize".
Yet they continually claim to have "found it"......FACT !!
And expect everyone else to see this as credible.

As Dave says....."craving attention". Which is why they pop up in so many conversations about other topics, constantly referencing their own claims to fame.
Reminds me of an older SNL skit.
You guys probably know the one I'm thinking of.

 

[cactusjumper]

Old, Cubfan, somehiker,

Old is correct, Travis Tumlinson could not have seen or known of the Stone Crosses because they were discovered after his death.

Travis Tumlinson "may" have known about the Latin Heart because it was discovered about the time he passed away in the early 1960's. He never mentioned the Latin Heart so it appears he was unaware of its existence.

Both the original Stone Crosses and the Latin Heart are gone, destroyed. We know what they look like because of an early photograph of the Stone Crosses and a paper copying of both sides of the Latin Heart.

Al Reser came out and stayed at my ranch at New River on several occasions. He would drive out from Apache Junction, stay for dinner and sleep overnight in the bunkhouse. He would stay up late into the night sitting out on the porch of the bunkhouse telling stories of his times in the mountains. I have him on tape telling many of his stories and accounts. I have him on tape telling the Latin Heart story. He tells of Charley Miller's account but does not mention Rhodes Wilson as the finder of the Latin Heart. Also, Bill Holden had nothing to do with either the Stone Crosses or Latin Heart. That was started by a man who made up several stories and passed them around the Dutchman community to try and see who would pass on the gossip. Hatt and this man were friends and Hatt helped him spread a few of the stories.

Al knew Charley Miller very well. Al lived on Lawson drive in Apache Junction just south of Broadway and Miller lived in a trailer court not far from Al. It was Miller who had the Latin Heart and destroyed it. After Al died I went to Miller's place to let him know Al had passed away and ask him some questions I had but the manager there said he had moved out and left no forwarding address. Al had an address book with Miller's information but the lady that came and cleaned up Al's place threw out everything that wasn't of value to her. That was the last I knew of Miller.

View attachment 1610531

Al Reser at the ranch in New River

Matthew,

The above highlighted statement, assumes the Stone Crosses were found as the story claims. Like the Stone Maps, it's possible the crosses were around much earlier than their claimed finding date. The stories have been fairly well convoluted over the years as new information comes along.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[somehiker]

Unfortunately, new information is all too often not drawn from the well of truth.

 

[somehiker]

BTW:

RG has a new post up at DUSA.

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

BTW:

RG has a new post up at DUSA.

Read it. Hmm...................... He seems sincere and I've never interacted with him. It'll be very interesting to see what Part Deux brings. At least he's trying to be open and honest!

I do have a difficult time with "hundreds of meeeelions of dollars" part.

 

[somehiker]

I found that kinda interesting as well, not just the amount.....which may be only a "today's dollars" estimation.....but with it being attributed to a theft from a powerful and influential order like the Jesuits of Northern Sonora . But if it's all gone, how will we know what it really was.....or IF it was real in the first place ? Jesuit affluence (the Order, not the individual Priest) is something we have argued about for a long time .

 

[nobodie]

Old,
On today's stone trail maps there are 3 triangles. On the original map instead of triangles the first one was the image of the horse, the second one was the image of the priest and the third one was the image of the heart. Is that possible? If you can't answer that then just nod your head.

 

[cw0909]

since RG mentioned that TT worked at some mines, but not the yr
i went to a site,and looked in the 1940s, and tried to compare to
the RC pdf map from the 1920s, for hints.clues,to maybe past players
of the LDM legend, im not sure how to look up transfers of claims
or the owner name/s of the mine name,from yr/s to yr/s.

if i can remember my password over there, id ask RG for a timeline
of each event, and thanks RG for posting the info,looking forward
to the discussions im sure will follow

links to walnut and RC map
http://www.resolutionmineeis.us/sites/default/files/references/vander-meer-1927.pdf
i looked in the 40s b/c i think TT was in oregon in the 50s
https://thediggings.com/usa/arizona/pinal-az021/claims?decade=1940

 

[Old]

Just for a point of clarification RG is not asking anyone to validate or concur in anything. It would be nice if you did but his posting is not made for that reason. Just as his videos, its a gift, freely given. Demands for material objects not in his control is a little over the top. Its a gift. A gift of three years of his life and work product. Its not a full on raid of the family's safety deposit box. That's their property to do with as they chose.

Perhaps its not something everyone can enjoy. No problem. Just close the page and move on if its not to your specifications.

Any and all are most welcome to be skeptical and doubt. I wouldn't expect anyone to accept a contrary theory on face value. Check the references yourself and form your own conclusions based on best evidence. His objective is to share the story three years in the making fleshing it out with great detail and where possible physical evidence and verifiable facts. What you do with it is up to you.

 

[Old]

Nobodie, As you seem to indicate as well.....I personally believe the triangles do have meaning. What they mean here is open for speculation.

The only thing I will add to that is an old surveyor taught me early on........there's a square in every circle, and a circle in every square. All squares are made up of triangles. To figure how much land is in a triangular piece of land you first have to make it into a square (or rectangle) and then divide it in half. Of course, that was before there were hand held computers that did all that for you. Much easier these days.

Does that have any relevance here Heck if I know for certain but it makes the mind wonder into interesting theory.

 

[Old]

Which "millions" do you guys question? What Travis found or what RG found? Yes, both would be based on todays value.

What we believe Travis found didn't have anything to do with the Jesuit Order. What RG found had everything to do with the Jesuit Order. If you wait a bit, I believe that will be fleshing out a bit for you. There will be room for lively debate but hold up for more detail.

 

[releventchair]

Well well. R.G. made it through the mirror of legend and back again with more than questions.
Fascinating. And a somber bravo.

Kind of him to share. Here's hoping his inner K. Burns comes to great fruition down the road. It's in him still. If temper don't get in the way of patience...
Sure looking forward to the trail , and up to 47.

 

[Cubfan64]

Which "millions" do you guys question? What Travis found or what RG found? Yes, both would be based on todays value.

What we believe Travis found didn't have anything to do with the Jesuit Order. What RG found had everything to do with the Jesuit Order. If you wait a bit, I believe that will be fleshing out a bit for you. There will be room for lively debate but hold up for more detail.

I think the skepticism was around the "theft of hundreds of millions of dollars of treasure" from the site Ryan identifies as the "1847" site. It's a healthy skepticism I'm sure both you and he can appreciate as I would fully expect anyone to question that statement and as Wayne mentioned, that's going to be a mighty difficult statement to back up/prove without a treasure to show - not impossible, but pretty tough to draw the lines connecting enough evidence.

That said, I know folks are looking forward to hearing and seeing whatever Ryan is able to share.

By the way, I didn't interpret any questions or comments here or on the other forum suggesting "demands" for material objects not in Ryan's possession. It's an obvious question to ask whether those things might be available and express hope that they will as all that sort of thing backs up whatever the story is that's being told. You're absolutely correct that those things are the property of the family to do with as they please, but you have to appreciate the interest from this group in physically seeing some of those things.

I'm sorry things didn't work out for a film version of this story, but I get the sense that Ryan really enjoyed his time and experiences despite how it ended. Looking forward to reading all the coming installments - if nothing else, it's a new history that hasn't been told before and we're all starved for that

 

[somehiker]

Which "millions" do you guys question? What Travis found or what RG found? Yes, both would be based on todays value.

What we believe Travis found didn't have anything to do with the Jesuit Order. What RG found had everything to do with the Jesuit Order. If you wait a bit, I believe that will be fleshing out a bit for you. There will be room for lively debate but hold up for more detail.

Obviously, since we were talking about RG's latest offering, the claim in question was this....." The theft of hundreds of millions of dollars of treasure from the 1847 site."

So far, RG has only claimed to have located and identified the "site" where this "theft" took place.
Paul is correct in that no one has made any demands. But previously, Ryan had claimed copy rite to photos of the stones and maps.
So what gives with that ?
​

 

[Old]

>>>>>>>>>>So far, RG has only claimed to have located and identified a "site". Are you saying that he also recovered some millions in Jesuit treasure ?>>>>>>>>>

Hold on to that question. Its not going to be as long as it has been. He'll share the story with you and then you can decide what to make of it.

We've come a long way, have we not? Remember the long dark days of doubt that the Good Fathers were involved. The protestations that we were telling tall tales. The checking up that was done including those requesting special phone devices to question our truthfulness with the Order? Yeah, we were told about that and apologized for the intrusion and impetuousness of the curiosity seekers.

Little did you know of the trips and communications across the ocean to the Vatican. The opening of the Vatican library and resources to members of the Order seeking verification and records. The prayers, contemplation, reflection, and request for guidance and direction. All the while we waited to know if the initial findings were accurate or even possible. Was it possible that we had half of the puzzle and the Vatican had the counterparts to complete the picture? Yes, all that happened and more...........and soon you will know the rest of the story.

 

[somehiker]

>>>>>>>>>>So far, RG has only claimed to have located and identified a "site". Are you saying that he also recovered some millions in Jesuit treasure ?>>>>>>>>>

Hold on to that question. Its not going to be as long as it has been. He'll share the story with you and then you can decide what to make of it.

We've come a long way, have we not? Remember the long dark days of doubt that the Good Fathers were involved. The protestations that we were telling tall tales. The checking up that was done including those requesting special phone devices to question our truthfulness with the Order? Yeah, we were told about that and apologized for the intrusion and impetuousness of the curiosity seekers.

Little did you know of the trips and communications across the ocean to the Vatican. The opening of the Vatican library and resources to members of the Order seeking verification and records. The prayers, contemplation, reflection, and request for guidance and direction. All the while we waited to know if the initial findings were accurate or even possible. Was it possible that we had half of the puzzle and the Vatican had the counterparts to complete the picture? Yes, all that happened and more...........and soon you will know the rest of the story.

I've already dropped THAT question in my edit. Added another question instead. But you can ignore it, mainly because this is starting to sound somewhat reminiscent of the "Holy Stones" thread IMO.
That one also had plenty of spicy skullduggery, spies and other subterfuges, as I recall, which did keep us entertained for some time.
"Phone devices" ? Like one of those antique fax attachments ?
Say what ....The Vatican don't do e-mail....Skype ?

 

[sdcfia]

Hard to say what's in store for the curious gawkers. I know that I've seen these sorts of Superstition revelations before. 1997 to be exact, when an associate whom I had some contact with at the time sent me a boatload of photos, allegations aspirations, etc. that promised to "blow the lid off." Nothing came of it then, that I'm aware of. Maybe it was a pipe dream, maybe the powers that be killeried the project. C'est la vie. [[Portion of an old email provided below for s&g.]]

Twenty-one years later and more allegations. Good ones. Lid blowers. I hope we're at least provided with a damned good story to tickle our fancies. My prediction: we won't see any gold or bonafide treasure maps, but we'll hear a lot about them. Same as always. I think we at least deserve a good book from all this. You gotta admit - RG certainly juiced up the carved rock rumors. Kudos to him.

" ... We have been granted the right to put these artifacts into a museum of our choice and charge a fee for people wishing to view the treasures. If the treasure is found to belong to the church than the State will turn these items over to the church. However, a Holding Company has been created by a third party which represents the Church's interest. They will pay us the full value placed upon these artifacts through an off-shore trust which has been set up by the Vatican's attorneys in England. ...

... The Church is aware of the fact that hidden treasures exist due to the Church's involvement in the new world. The Church records, especially the Jesuit Archives contain information that is not public knowledge. Only certain individuals have access to this information. The two Cardinals involved with our site know the truth. Even we do not know what they know. They did not implement this off-shore trust for nothing. ..."

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

 

[Old]

Leaving aside some of the more caustic quips; I will try to address your question.

I don't blame anyone for being skeptical. It is a quite astounding turn of events. All I'm doing is telling you what indeed did happen. I've told you since early on the story was larger than imagined and global in scope. To broaden your horizons. I was sincere. I, and others, took a lot of heat for that mostly justified, some less so. Does it sound beyond the pale? Of course it does. That's what makes it extraordinary. I am so very glad it can now be shared.

Does the Vatican use email and Skype and such. Of course they do for normal business. What they don't do is expose their antiquities to possible damage from scanners and harsh lighting. And they don't do it under any circumstance unless there is merit found in the request. That requires meetings to discuss the merit of the request and review by higher placed members. If found worthy of further study; appointments, retrieval of the pertinent documents and eyes on review using careful processes under the care of the archivist. These wheels don't move fast. It was a long process with lots of anxiety and anticipation.

What the upshot of all of that is.........is the evidence passed the test and got an okay for further exploration under a joint plan. It was a collaborative effort. That's no small thing.

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Leaving aside some of the more caustic quips; I will try to address your question.

I don't blame anyone for being skeptical. It is a quite astounding turn of events. All I'm doing is telling you what indeed did happen. I've told you since early on the story was larger than imagined and global in scope. To broaden your horizons. I was sincere. I, and others, took a lot of heat for that mostly justified, some less so. Does it sound beyond the pale? Of course it does. That's what makes it extraordinary. I am so very glad it can now be shared.

Does the Vatican use email and Skype and such. Of course they do for normal business. What they don't do is expose their antiquities to possible damage from scanners and harsh lighting. And they don't do it under any circumstance unless there is merit found in the request. That requires meetings to discuss the merit of the request and review by higher placed members. If found worthy of further study; appointments, retrieval of the pertinent documents and eyes on review using careful processes under the care of the archivist. These wheels don't move fast. It was a long process with lots of anxiety and anticipation.

What the upshot of all of that is.........is the eviI hate to be dence passed the test and got an okay for further exploration under a joint plan. It was a collaborative effort. That's no small thing.

I hate to be the voice of skepticism but if it there were any major finds or new revelations we wouldn't be reading about on DUSA. Also while I appreciate the new reading it's just that and also a further caveat; if there were any major discoveries it wouldn't be divided up into multiple posts and/or forum entries. It's just another "OOH LOOK AT ME" thing.

If there were any finds worth reporting we'd be reading about in the American Journal Of Archaeology. Therefore it's fiction. It's up to the claim maker to provide the proof and skepticism is not only healthy it must be rigorously defended.


Until I see that entry in the AJA it's all a bunch of fiction.