The Peralta Stones

[mrs.oroblanco]

It's not hard to lose a cache - or anything else that might be in the great outdoors (and come to think of it, what the heck did I do with my remote) - in the house.

Trappers lose traps all the time, and people lose themselves in the wilderness - heck, if you can lose yourself (get lost), why is it so incredible that someone could lose a cache if: they died and didn't give good directions to a relative, or, if there were many floods that changed the roads (we all know what the roads in the desert are - washes - that can change with any gully-washer) or - if there was some other act of god - like an earthquake - we know there have never been any of those in the areas we are discussing, right?

Of course, if they had used their GPS's in the 1800's, I guess nothing would be lost - oh - forgot, they used things like rocks and cactus and stones with holes, to "read" where they were, and that was incredibly accurate, heh?

Since there HAVE been cache's found, I see no reason why there are not others. People today hide their valuables - and they are no different than the old-timers.

This is not a case of just one adventure story, and it has been lost and found and lost and found, more than a couple of times. (though I still think that if you are using the Peralta Stones to find it, you are wasting your time).

I really do not understand the concept of having a "guide" - heck, if you knew where you were going, you sure wouldn't take ME there, it would already be found. Much like some other folks who take people up into the Supers, they do not know where it is, so they don't know where to take people, just "up into the mountains, where.................."

B

 

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[Ellie Baba]

Hi Group,

National Treasure was a great movie and it was based on actual in the field experiences and tons of documentation. Bob Brewer worked with Buena Vista to provide the script. To make a movie profitable the true stories have been changed, ie; so that the hero (Nick Cage) and his friends win the day, find the treasure and live happily ever after. The actual alternate ending would go something like this: As soon as the SS noticed Nick and friends near the actual church the treasure was hidden under they would have been dealt with severely. Were they prepared? No way! The FBI guy who wore a Masonic ring was a small time player. The only Masons that know about the actual depositories are 33 degree level Masons or other high level individuals in other secret organizations on a need to know basis (the Jesuits being one of these, sorry Lamar, but its true). Why do you think the Wilderness Areas were created, why are the USGS maps loaded with instructional clues to these treasures locations, why have the actual sectional datum pins been changed in the field and do not correspond to the maps? I will tell you why. Go ahead and call your local Sheriff or other government enforcement agencies and see how well they will help you when you go up against a government who is entrenched with these same secret societies. Springfield, you must have heard about the treasure trove found in New Mexico a few years back. The National Guard and the FBI were all over the place kicked everyone off of the property, fenced it in and the area is off limits. One of my friends (the owner of a metal detector company) called me by phone while they were being swarmed by the National Guard and he was frightened beyond belief. What about Victorio Peak? This trove belonged to the SS and look at how they handled it. The area became a part of the White Sands Missile Base and then the Army carried off all the gold and relics (this has been somewhat documented) and then allowed the Noss Group to go find the treasure if there was one and low and behold it was gone! Who do you think authorized this mission and who has control of the treasure? Does the President tell the troops all of the details of a mission? Heck no, he tells his Generals and the orders go through the chain of command, none of them have any idea what this mission has to do with, they just follow orders. Am I right or wrong?
It is the same with the Secret Societies, only the top leaders know the truth and the worker bees have their orders and they infiltrate into normal everyday jobs within society while doing there work for the SS. I have a very reliable contact in Tucson, a government employee who told me years ago that the Feds will know when we get close to finding a trove and step in and secure it. They have been watching the depository areas via satellite. So when I state that I know some of these guys I mean just that. The Spiral Staircase (an Egyptian Site) located on the Southeast side of the Soups was discovered and a number of personal friends had actually seen and held some of the artifacts. One of my best friends was to construct a a large support made of timbers to hold up the huge two to three ton dead fall boulder from coming down. For some reason it didn't fall when they entered the second tunnel. A few days later these bad dudes show up and threatened the initial finders (3) and they were so scared that one moved to Washington State, one moved to California and the other guy just disappeared. Not long after this site was fenced up and warning notices placed in the area. A good friend of mine later went to the site to show some nonbelievers the spot and they were met by the FBI and told to leave the area immediately. Two of these people were really ticked after the event occurred and later admitted that they would not have said a word while in the company of these FBI agents. Know your vulnerabilities my friends and keep your search focused on the LDM. When confronted with any military organization would you seriously demand your rights? I led an aggressive unit trained to infiltrate the enemies camp, control communication and quietly dispose of those not on our side. They had no rights. If you believe that we have rights in this country today then you will never understand what I have been trying to present on these forum pages.

Have a great weekend my friends,

EB

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

If you want to talk about presidents - most, if not all, of our presidents don't even know what the clandestine upper government (higher than him, and unnamed) even do. Plausible deniability, as it were.

Also, there are many new maps that have water sources removed - on purpose, along with old mines and diggings, also, on purpose.

That only accomplishes a couple of things - 1: Newbies will die 2: the older, more experienced folks know where they are anyway, and will pass it on.

Much like the roads and routes that are removed from the maps in California, people think they don't exist - but, they are still there, all you have to do is be experienced or, if new - be careful and look around. Use those GPS's and mark the waypoints.

We have been confronted on our own claims - and I have seen people arrested on their own claims - dragged off in handcuffs by folks who are NOT part of the Federal government. It's not rocket science. There is an element in this country who want all the control.

Save your old maps, make your own maps, document where you go and where you've gone, document landmarks, etc., etc.

Regardless of all that - if you let those things stop you - you are giving up your rights, something I will never do.

We have a Masonic Lodge here - more than 60% are 33rd degree - it seems, anymore that everyone is a chief. (at least here). Heck, most of our presidents were masons.

B

 

[Springfield]

... Regardless of all that - if you let those things stop you - you are giving up your rights, something I will never do.....

Of course you can exercise your rights, as long as you operate within the framework of everyday society as we know it, where people are generally held accountable and there is a system in place to redress their grievances. However, once you threaten the security of those who are unnaccountable, and who live beyond the legal framework you and I do, then you will very quickly give up your rights if threatened. Why? Because when your life and those of your family are literally in the balance, you will realize that you are utterly powerless to control the situation, and you will capitulate. Martyrs are a dime a dozen, and very few of us are willing to join that club.

The reason so many TH-er's (who believe they 'know' stuff) are reluctant to believe this is because they have been nowhere close to the caches that they have been chasing and therefore are merely running in circles safely away from the prize they think they're 'close' to. That's because the 'clues' they have been hanging on, old and new, are disinformation.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

It's not that some do not believe it is happening - its that there are still some souls in this country that are willing to give up their lives for their freedom to do what is legal.

Just like the people who own guns - the statement you see so often, tells of the character of these people "You will get my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hand".

There are many people who are unwilling to let sub-cultures win the battle. It is, a matter of principal. One of the reasons Germany (Hitler) got as far as he did, is because a whole group of people were "abiding" enough to be enslaved and killed. If we do that, it can only spread. Its no different than jumping out of an airplane - that chute may not open - but for some, it is worth the chance. Remember Hitler's motto: Kill one, frighten 1000. (from Nero)

B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Beth Wrote;

We have a Masonic Lodge here - more than 60% are 33rd degree - it seems, anymore that everyone is a chief. (at least here). Heck, most of our presidents were masons.

Hi Beth,

There are only two recognized Supreme Councils in the United States and the "Most Puissant Sovereign Grand Commander" is a 33rd degree Mason (one per council) Total Councils in the world are 26. These 26 33rd degree Masons are the only true enlightened leaders that are knowledgeable of the hidden depositories of the world within the Masonic membership. Add the other members of the other related secret societies including heads of government, banking institutions, etc. A typical Lodge will have a few 32nd degree Masons, but not 60% 33rd degree as noted above. Not all Masonic Lodges are excepted by the primary Masonic government in charge of the 26 accepted Masonic Supreme Councils. My ex-father in law is a 32nd degree Mason here in Phoenix. He has never heard of any treasure troves located here in Arizona and if he did know he would not have told me anyway. My father was also a Mason and he just told me to join the order and work my way up through the ranks.

Also, there are many new maps that have water sources removed - on purpose, along with old mines and diggings, also, on purpose.

Guess who had their hands involved in changing our maps; the SS working with the Federal Government.

We have been confronted on our own claims - and I have seen people arrested on their own claims - dragged off in handcuffs by folks who are NOT part of the Federal government. It's not rocket science. There is an element in this country who want all the control.

Its the New World Order Beth and these groups are all tied together. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand the new G20 Summit wants to form a one world government and we do not want President Obama to sign this so called Green House document.

You are correct about our Masonic Presidents; I am currently trying to figure out two executive orders made by two different presidents relating to the withdrawal of one known KGC site. Theodore Roosevelt (M), Franklin D. Roosevelt (M) and John F. Kennedy (non-Masonic) he issued the order to reopen the lands for mineral entry. the resulting order was bizarre to say the least. Document, document. More to come later.

EB

 

[ghostdog]

EB,When the Presidents signed these orders, they were delegateing ten"s of thousands of acres to be protected. To say they were doing this to protect any one treasure site, a "possible" mere spect on the landscape, defies common sense. Not to say our government does not display this trait often, I surely don"t believe its the case in your statement, EB. Proof as they say is in the pudding, I do disagree with a lot of your beliefs/conections,especially where the Dutchman is concerned being a "sentinal", however I can"t prove you wrong, but I haven"t seen that you have proved the case either. Your posts make a good read and I thank you for that..gd

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings friends,

Ellie Baba wrote

National Treasure was a great movie

Agreed, except I respectfully disagree on the amount of "truth" involved, as it looks like much more "dramatic license" is involved than reality - rather like the Da Vinci Code. Great story, great movie, not a sound basis for seeking real treasures. Just a personal opinion of course.

Mrs Oroblanco wrote

Also, there are many new maps that have water sources removed - on purpose, along with old mines and diggings, also, on purpose.

I feel this practice is CRIMINAL on the part of our public servants. In this day of open information, the fact that topographic maps are being deliberately altered to "hide" certain features, in order to "protect them from the public" smacks of fascism and elitism at its worst. If I were wealthy, I would file a lawsuit to get this practice STOPPED. These maps are created by public servants, paid for from the public treasury and public taxes, are OWNED by the public, they have no right to be hiding anything that is not a specific case of national security. Heck we ought to file a class action lawsuit against the United States Geological Survey.

Springfield wrote

The reason so many TH-er's (who believe they 'know' stuff) are reluctant to believe this is because they have been nowhere close to the caches that they have been chasing and therefore are merely running in circles safely away from the prize they think they're 'close' to. That's because the 'clues' they have been hanging on, old and new, are disinformation.

I have to agree in part and respectfully disagree in part - for in some cases the "clues" ARE undoubtedly pure misinformation, likely deliberate. (The Holmes manuscript comes to mind) However in some cases I believe the "clues" are recorded as truthful as it was received, just that they may be erroneous in some detail, as in "west" instead of "east". Otherwise the "treasure" or mine would not be LOST. Of course even with a full set of utterly incorrect "clues" many a treasure hunter has had some of the greatest adventures of their lives, which are treasures in their own right. Whom amongst us would trade their treasure hunting experiences away if it were possible, including the un-successful expeditions?

This paragraph is for our "newbie" readers who are not actively posting. Some of us seek documentation beyond what is possible, for not everything CAN be documented and a great many records have been lost to history - most of the Jesuit records from Pimeria Alta for instance or the Wells Fargo shipping records just for starters. It may seem logical to dismiss a story for lack of documentation but you will miss out on many (or possibly most) lost treasures because the original records no longer exist. On this basis, that we must insist on original documentation to support every aspect, much of history and religion would have to be dismissed. It is also poor etiquette to demand for someone else to do all the research for you, before you will believe or accept the story. I will get off the soapbox now, I am sure nothing I could say will change the attitudes of some of us, just want our neophytes to realize that while documentation is GREAT, it is NOT always possible nor even necessary for the purpose of finding and recovering a lost treasure.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[ghostdog]

My point exactly, the facts are always not available, so many possible endings "one being the truth exist". There said in less than 1 paragraph.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hmmm what can I say? cept'n sheesh. Beth, is the coffee ready?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

There is always coffee ready


B

 

[ghostdog]

EB, I do respect your various thoughts, I dont mean to come off so strong about any issue, you have been there, I haven"t, I sure you have alot more imfo than me, my disagreements are very thin to say the least, and I have not a shred of proof for my opinons. The only reason I responded is I have been drinking all day which is not a good thing for my diabitis,really stupid on my part, I do enjoy your posts.
Best Regards,jp

 

[Oroblanco]

Ghostdog wrote

The only reason I responded is I have been drinking all day

Hmm - "En Vino Veritas"? <I am kidding amigo! > I have done much the same, sometimes say things that I later regret. Just wanted to rib you!
Oroblanco

 

[ghostdog]

Thanks Oro no problem, ribs sound good with , regards to you and your other half also.jp

 

[Ellie Baba]

EB,When the Presidents signed these orders, they were delegateing ten"s of thousands of acres to be protected. To say they were doing this to protect any one treasure site, a "possible" mere spect on the landscape, defies common sense. Not to say our government does not display this trait often, I surely don"t believe its the case in your statement, EB. Proof as they say is in the pudding, I do disagree with a lot of your beliefs/conections,especially where the Dutchman is concerned being a "sentinal", however I can"t prove you wrong, but I haven"t seen that you have proved the case either. Your posts make a good read and I thank you for that..gd

Ghostdog,

I wish that I could just show you a copy of the order, however any part of it is specific to our area of interest. Some of the following information from the order will be missing. I had just received these two Executive Orders yesterday and the first is dated December 1936, Executive Order No.XXXX Withdrawing Public Land for the use of the War department ARIZONA, by virtue of and pursuant to the authority vested in me by the act of June 1910, ch.x21, 3x Stat. 047, as amended by the act of August 1912, ch.xx9, 3x Stat.. x9x, it is ordered that the following-described land in the State of Arizona be, and it is herby, temporarily withdrawn from settlement, location,sale, or entry and reserved for use of the War department as an enlargement of a xxxxxxxxxxxx used by the Arizona National Guard;

T. X N., R. X W., G, & S. R. M.
sec. X, All
sec. X, W1/2, NE 1/2, N/W 1/4

Executive Order No. XXXX dated November XX, 1934, as amended, is hereby modified to the extent necessary to make this order effective. This order shall continue in full force and effect unless and until revoked by the President or by act of Congress.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

The White House, December XX, 1936.

Hi Group,

A KGC Mining site was taken away by this executive order and a deep shaft hides a large cache of gold and other items. President Roosevelt was a 32nd Degree Mason and he specifically targeted 160 acres of mining claims that once belonged to a Southern Sympathetic Group who were known Southern supporters and were members of the KGC and the Odd fellows (IOOF). This depository is connected to the Stone Maps and has a direct tie to the Florence Topo Depositories as mentioned in another post in part of Lost Dutchman Forums. Hey guys I am busting my butt to sort this mountain of information out so just hang in there with me and we will figure these Stone Tablets out.

Time for bed, later,

EB


So, Ghostdog that is the best I can do for now. The other Executive Order was to revoke the action and it is signed by JFK. Group, I wish that I could post more of my documentation, but I just can't do it right now. I will provide tidbits here and there to try and back up my claims.

 

[Springfield]

Oroblanco:
... In this day of open information, the fact that topographic maps are being deliberately altered to "hide" certain features, in order to "protect them from the public" smacks of fascism and elitism at its worst. If I were wealthy, I would file a lawsuit to get this practice STOPPED. These maps are created by public servants, paid for from the public treasury and public taxes, are OWNED by the public, they have no right to be hiding anything that is not a specific case of national security. Heck we ought to file a class action lawsuit against the United States Geological Survey.

An impassioned outrage, O, but if you were wealthy, your energy would probably yield better results if you could obtain as many of the old maps as possible and make them available to the public. These documents are out there, but they're getting harder to track down.


Oroblanco:
... Of course even with a full set of utterly incorrect "clues" many a treasure hunter has had some of the greatest adventures of their lives, which are treasures in their own right. Whom amongst us would trade their treasure hunting experiences away if it were possible, including the un-successful expeditions?

You're wisdom is showing here. It's the quest that is the true prize. Sure, recovering a fencepost jar of coins would be sweet. Stumbling across perfect arrowheads is a thrill too, or a nice pocket of placer in some stream, but it's the anticipation of the hunt and the time spent in terra incognita that benefits all of us. As far as the famous 'lost mines' and 'hidden treasures' are concerned, well .... I guess I've stated my opinions elsewhere. Let me just say that once you 'see the light', your curiosity will elevate you into different ways of looking at things.

 

[Oroblanco]

I just find it almost incredible that satellites are busily photographing everyone's back yard with such accuracy as to be invasive of privacy, yet the very same govt agencies are deliberately altering topographic maps out of deference to a special interest group. It should not take the actions of ANY private party to preserve and make available accurate maps which were paid for by the public and made for the public use.
Oroblanco

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Hola ORO: "yet the very same govt agencies are deliberately altering topographic maps out of deference to a special interest group." I Think this sums it up.

1.Forward movement: advance, advancement, furtherance, headway, march1, progression. See better/worse, forward/backward.
2.A progression from a simple form to a more complex one: development, evolution, evolvement, growth, unfolding. See change/persist.
3.Steady improvement, as of an individual or a society: amelioration, betterment, development, improvement, melioration. See better/worse.


To go forward, especially toward a conclusion: advance, come (along), get along, march1, move, proceed. See approach/retreat.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Santa Fe New Mexican,

You are almost right - the truth of the matter is that many of these special interest groups are actually doing the maps themselves, compliments of the government's permission.

Before the California Desert Protection Act was even in committee, I was able to get a copy of what was the "new map" - I called people in the government (Feinstein) that was working on the proposed law, and they referred me to Nature's Conservancy - which I did contact - and THEY were the ones in charge of figuring out what land they wanted protected. (which they sent to me almost a year before it ever hit the congress).
And, that map I have, is exactly what was in the bill, as passed).

Not to mention - they went out into the desert with government signs, blocking all the side roads, way before the bill went into effect - then they changed the roads to "routes".

Who has the power?

Who are we "saving" all this for? So that someday, our great grandchildren can go on a train ride and see it in a bubble? Our public land belongs to the special interest groups - what kicks it for me, is things like - the very same area that I cannot drive on, still has the desert speed races, and most of the money goes to - no, not us, no, not the state, no, not the department - 80% goes to Nature's Conservancy and Sierra Club. Why is that?

Sierra Club has a large meeting out in the desert - they drove there - where you and I cannot drive - they had about 200 cars and SUVs.

Sorry, didn't mean to turn that into a rant.

B

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
I think the point is that nobody can state with any degree of accuracy what were original designs and intentions of the stone maps, therefore how can anyone state with any accuracy that the stone maps point the way to the LDM? The same can also be stated about the Bilbrey crosses and the Latin heart. Nobody has yet to decipher any one of those item, therefore how can anyone state that the items in question are even related to the LDM? For all anyone may know, the items may very well be for an entirely different purpose and it is upon this that I rest my hypothesis, my friends.
Your friend;
LAMAR