history hunter
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- Apr 12, 2007
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Blundered wording often appears on Acient coins, there were no school teachers in those daysSWR said:Silver Searcher said:Don't think so but a lot of people(incuding experts) have ID it to be fantasy, from a picture.....WoW talented or whatSWR said:Silver Searcher said:SWR...I like the intro on your aviatorSWR said:IronSpike said:Silver Searcher said:And with out handling or studying itIronSpike said:Nice link mojjax Now we know Mark Parker's take on the coin and that was without contacting him
SS
Only pointing out that Mark Parker was suggested as an expert contact opinion
Would be very unlikely this many ancient coins would survive in this good condition and ONLY in America.
Copy of a silver coin. Seems to echo the remarks made in this thread
SS
Me too. Is someone claiming this copy of a silver coin to be real?
SS
Yes. From a picture that has the wrong fonts and spelling and several other easily identifiable traits of a not-so-real coin of that period.
Blundered legends(misspelt) appear on Hammered coins all the time, it is very common, coin makers were usually very poor, and uneducatedSWR said:Silver Searcher said:Blundered wording often appears on Acient coins, there were no school teachers in those daysSWR said:Silver Searcher said:Don't think so but a lot of people(incuding experts) have ID it to be fantasy, from a picture.....WoW talented or whatSWR said:Silver Searcher said:SWR...I like the intro on your aviatorSWR said:IronSpike said:Silver Searcher said:And with out handling or studying itIronSpike said:Nice link mojjax Now we know Mark Parker's take on the coin and that was without contacting him
SS
Only pointing out that Mark Parker was suggested as an expert contact opinion
Would be very unlikely this many ancient coins would survive in this good condition and ONLY in America.
Copy of a silver coin. Seems to echo the remarks made in this thread
SS
Me too. Is someone claiming this copy of a silver coin to be real?
SS
Yes. From a picture that has the wrong fonts and spelling and several other easily identifiable traits of a not-so-real coin of that period.
SS
Sure there were school teachers in those days. There is a huge difference between a misprinted coin and a blatantly misspelled coin with the wrong fonts!
Wow a great find Mojjax!! I wish we could see the rest of the chain it may help with the ID. HistoryHunter, I suggest sell while you can because the price is falling.mojjax said:Has this link been posted yet ?
It's one that someone found in Maine , and they asked Mark Parker .
http://www.treasurenet.com/cgi-bin/treasure/westeast/askmarkparker.pl/Show?_id=200307
I will give him the $100, no problembigcypresshunter said:Wow a great find Mojjax!! I wish we could see the rest of the chain it may help with the ID. HistoryHunter, I suggest sell while you can because the price is falling.mojjax said:Has this link been posted yet ?
It's one that someone found in Maine , and they asked Mark Parker .
http://www.treasurenet.com/cgi-bin/treasure/westeast/askmarkparker.pl/Show?_id=200307
SS, seriously, you dont have to handle this to tell its not ancient. As someone said, it just screams copy. Its that obvious.
THE MAINE COIN
SEEMS LIKE OLD TIMES
Mark, I found this chain-style watch fob at a storm-swept beach in Maine. Both the chain and the coin attached to it seem to be made of gilt bronze. What I'd like to know is, what kind of coin is it, is it genuine, and does it have any value?
It's evidently a copy of an ancient Greek silver coin- specifically, a Siculo-Punic tetradrachm struck around 320-300 B.C. The wreathed-head portrait on the obverse represents one of the lesser female deities from Greek mythology- possibly Tanit or Artemis- and I believe that the Punic inscription beneath the horse's head means, "The People of the Camp," referring to mercenaries fighting for Carthage. An authentic coin of this type could bring over $1,000 in Very Fine condition; but if this is a late 19th or early 20th century base-metal copy made for ornamental use, I'd estimate the value of the fob at less than $100.
She has an earing and not the same roots and no Syracuse but yes, it was modeled after this coin that has already been posted several times.. BTW I can view the entire page.traderoftreasures said:here is a real one .....http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=90544
So can I what's all the fuss about the pagebigcypresshunter said:She has an earing and not the same roots and no Syracuse but yes, it was modeled after this coin that has already been posted several times.. BTW I can view the entire page.traderoftreasures said:here is a real one .....http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=90544
Silver Searcher said:Don't think so but a lot of people(incuding experts) have ID it to be fantasy, from a picture.....WoW talented or what
SS
Mark, I found this chain-style watch fob at a storm-swept beach in Maine. Both the chain and the coin attached to it seem to be made of gilt bronze. What I'd like to know is, what kind of coin is it, is it genuine, and does it have any value?quoteSilver Searcher said:I will give him the $100, no problem
SS
Bigcy.....this is the last reply I will make in this thread, when I posted a picture of a stunning Roman Bronze, I was asked how didn't I know it hadn't been lost recently. Well that could apply to HH coin(recently lost on beach) you keep refering to it as a coin when HH refers to it as a chain style watch fob, which is it. As you keep replying to me in this thread, it sudgests to me you still have doubts of your own, as to the correct validation of HH findbigcypresshunter said:Silver Searcher said:Don't think so but a lot of people(incuding experts) have ID it to be fantasy, from a picture.....WoW talented or what
SSMark, I found this chain-style watch fob at a storm-swept beach in Maine. Both the chain and the coin attached to it seem to be made of gilt bronze. What I'd like to know is, what kind of coin is it, is it genuine, and does it have any value?quoteSilver Searcher said:I will give him the $100, no problem
SS
SS do you have any idea what a bronze coin would look like after 2000 years on a windswept beach? It doesnt take much talent to realize the corrosive abilities of a saltwater environment.
As Mark Parker said it is evidently a modern copy. It may be worth a hundred bucks because of the fame. But as more coins surface, these "Farley coins" may become a mere curiosity, worth no more than Piggys Pignutts.
I think you just like to argue. You apparently waited all day for me to come online before responding. But thats OK. 8) I am not here to argue only to give my opinion. What you are saying is that there is a chance that the Maine coin/fob was recently lost and the Massachusetts coin was also recently lost and HH Wisconsin coin was also recently lost from someones collection of mint ancient coins that exist nowhere else on this planet besides America? Can you say that all in one breath?Silver Searcher said:Bigcy.....this is the last reply I will make in this thread, when I posted a picture of a stunning Roman Bronze, I was asked how didn't I know it hadn't been lost recently. Well that could apply to HH coin(recently lost on beach) you keep refering to it as a coin when HH refers to it as a chain style watch fob, which is it. As you keep replying to me in this thread, it sudgests to me you still have doubts of your own, as to the correct validation of HH find
I don't know who Mark Parker is, but all I will say on this is, if a coin expert looks at a picture of a coin and then tells the finder it's a fantasy copy, he is infact putting his name and reputation on the line, should at a later date the authenticity of the coin became a fact, were would this leave the experts reputation, I'll tell you were in taters, this why NO coin expert would put his name and reputation on the line, based on pictures from a email, he would want the coin in front of him to study in detail, this has been my point all along...my gut feeling is the same as yours about the find, but if I were a coin expert which I am not, I certainly wouldn't put my reputation on the line from a picture.
SS
You have made me go back on my word (posting in this thread)...I never waited for you to come online, I logged on about 1 hour ago, and saw your replybigcypresshunter said:I think you just like to argue. You apparently waited all day for me to come online before responding. But thats OK. 8) I am not here to argue only to give my opinion. What you are saying is that there is a chance that the Maine coin/fob was recently lost and the Massachusetts coin was also recently lost and HH Wisconsin coin was also recently lost from someones collection of mint ancient coins that exist nowhere else on this planet besides America? Can you say that all in one breath?Silver Searcher said:Bigcy.....this is the last reply I will make in this thread, when I posted a picture of a stunning Roman Bronze, I was asked how didn't I know it hadn't been lost recently. Well that could apply to HH coin(recently lost on beach) you keep refering to it as a coin when HH refers to it as a chain style watch fob, which is it. As you keep replying to me in this thread, it sudgests to me you still have doubts of your own, as to the correct validation of HH find
I don't know who Mark Parker is, but all I will say on this is, if a coin expert looks at a picture of a coin and then tells the finder it's a fantasy copy, he is infact putting his name and reputation on the line, should at a later date the authenticity of the coin became a fact, were would this leave the experts reputation, I'll tell you were in taters, this why NO coin expert would put his name and reputation on the line, based on pictures from a email, he would want the coin in front of him to study in detail, this has been my point all along...my gut feeling is the same as yours about the find, but if I were a coin expert which I am not, I certainly wouldn't put my reputation on the line from a picture.
SS
Mark Parker writes for Western & Eastern Treasures Magazine. Maybe you should write to him with your opinion. Maybe he had a better pic.
Your difference of opinion is always welcome and I hope I have not upset you SS but if I disagree I will say so in most cases. Although what you say is true about recently lost coins, this coin/fob has other issues.
ok sorry it just appeared that way.Silver Searcher said:I never waited for you to come online, I logged on about 1 hour ago, and saw your reply
SS
bigcypresshunter said:As to the correct ID, IMO we do not yet know. I IDed one of the Farley coins from a 1909 Sears Roebuck and Co. catalog. I originally thought HH's coin was a zipper pull, then later a watch fob. Mark Parker thinks it may be a watch fob and the part of the chain we can see sure looks like an old fob chain. I wish we could see the rest of the chain.
I will agree with you that pictures can be deceiving, but this is all we have to go on. HistoryHunter was nice enough to take great pics on request from different angles. We make IDs all the time from the pics. Of course some mistakes are made. I think we got this one right. I was originally at 99 percent sure because I was only looking at pics but now I am getting closer to 100 percent. I have very little doubt it is a copy. Do you really have any doubt SS that this is not an ancient coin? I hope you will not stop posting because opposite views are always welcome but be prepared for a response.
There are still some mysteries here but I believe these were all made from the same die.history hunter said:The coin/fob in the pic you are talking about does not have a brass ring in the hole like mine, that is a little strange.
history hunter said:I just received a reply from Professor Mark Mcmenamin!
Dear Dale Brennan (aka History Hunter),
I received your request to comment on your new find of a bronze putative ancient coin with the palm tree showing dangling roots. This coin is an example of one of the mysterious Farley Coins. There has been much discussion of these coins in popular and scholarly publications. Some have considered these coins to be evidence of a Carthaginian presence in America. However, thanks to new discoveries such as yours, it now appears that this coin series in fact represents fantasy copies of ancient coin designs combining Greek and Carthaginian elements. I was able to demonstrate this in the following book:
McMenamin, M. A. 2000. Phoenicians, Fakes and Barry Fell: Solving the Mystery of Carthaginian Coins Found in America. Meanma Press, South Hadley, Massachusetts. ISBN 1893882012.
The late Gloria Farley, who had read of my Carthaginian map coin research, first brought these fantasy replicas to my attention. Her specimen was very worn and corroded. I was able, in 2000, to locate a Farley Coin in Northampton, MA, from the same or very similar dies that still retained mint luster under a lacquer coating. Thus no way can this be an ancient bronze coin. Nevertheless, your coin remains an important piece of American history and will henceforth be referred to as the ?Wisconsin Farley Coin.? Who minted these fantasy coins, and why, remains a mystery. Also mysterious is why these coins are scattered all over Eastern and Midwestern North America. Somebody went to a lot of trouble to mint these coins, probably well over one hundred years ago. I would very much like to learn the answers to these questions. Farley coins such as yours sell on the open market in the 50-100 dollar range. Eleven specimens are known, from five different die varieties. Your coin is of the Alabama-type die variety. These coins will likely become more valuable as we learn more about them. For example, how deeply was your coin buried?
At present, no authentic Carthaginian coins have been found in North America. Jeremiah Epstein in his 1980 article in Current Anthropology actually mentions one of the "Farley coins" in his paper. He accepted it as a genuine ancient coin and did not identify it as a copy or fantasy piece.
Carthaginian map coin theory, on the other hand, is still going strong and has gained additional supporters. The most recent paper on this subject is the following:
McMenamin, M. 2009. The mystery of the Carthaginian map coins. NI (Numismatics International) Bulletin, v. 44, nos. 7/8, p. 125-126.
You have made an excellent and important find. If you wish to post my reply to TreasureNet, please feel free to do so, but please let me know when you post it, many thanks.
Happy hunting,
Mark McMenamin
-----------------------------------------
thanks iv'e been trying to look up like 10 what is it's at once and had forgot.SWR said:traderoftreasures said:To the novice, many Carthaginian coins may appear to look the same since a large number of types have a female head on the obverse and a horse on the reverse...............
You forgot to give credits and link
http://www.ancient-coins.com/resourcedetail.asp?rsc=4
Without giving credit it looks like your own words. I always try to make my copy and pastes blue like this.traderoftreasures said:thanks iv'e been trying to look up like 10 what is it's at once and had forgot.SWR said:traderoftreasures said:To the novice, many Carthaginian coins may appear to look the same since a large number of types have a female head on the obverse and a horse on the reverse...............
You forgot to give credits and link
http://www.ancient-coins.com/resourcedetail.asp?rsc=4
Yes its a good site and already been posted several times on this thread. (hard to read all 5 pages I dont believe the uprooted palm coin is there.traderoftreasures said:here is a cool fake coin site of interest......http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/thumbnails.php?album=topn&cat=0&page=23