Both sides of Stone Maps Argument

[deducer]

It is against the rules to post links to another forum. However, at the risk of getting banned, here is the relevant thread that might provide what you are looking for.


Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps - Lost Dutchman Goldmine

In this thread, it turned out that Travis was a stone carver, loved to carve Spanish treasure themed stones. The 'galleon' carving is pretty impressive. It is not in dispute that Travis carved these other stone carvings. The style is very much in keeping with the Peralta stones. It is hard to ignore the fact that Travis loved to carve stones with treasure stuff. Kind of puts the whole thing in a different perspective.

Hi Roy,

I've been through that thread so many times. There is no smoking gun evidence. The best that thread has, is the old "he said, she said."

One thing that's been overlooked is that even though Travis carved somewhat in the style of what's on the Stone Maps, none of his carvings had any anthropomorphic depictions, which is what is on the Stone Maps.

The existence of anthropomorphism is a demonstration of abstract thinking, a signifier of higher education. That was very intentional.

 

[azdave35]

Hi Roy,

I've been through that thread so many times. There is no smoking gun evidence. The best that thread has, is the old "he said, she said."

One thing that's been overlooked is that even though Travis carved somewhat in the style of what's on the Stone Maps, none of his carvings had any anthropomorphic depictions, which is what is on the Stone Maps.

The existence of anthropomorphism is a demonstration of abstract thinking, a signifier of higher education. That was very intentional.

people change as they get older...the carvings you saw that travis did were carved when he was alot younger....how do you know he was uneducated?...alot of people back then couldn't afford college so they were self educated by reading books and hands on experience....you mistakenly assume all hillbillies are uneducated idiots...i hate to break this to you and shatter your bubble but most of the modern conveniences that you are enjoying today were invented by an uneducated hillbilly in his garage...some of us got smarts real good
besides ..you don't know everything that was uncovered in texas and oklahoma and with your attitude you probably never will

 

[Al D]

A very basic concept of cryptanalysis is that every valid system is self confirming, when you find this to be true about a system, such as the stone tablets, the only conclusion to make is that they are a valid cryptic system, which the stone tablets are.
Travis lacked the knowledge required to create such a system.

 

[azdave35]

A very basic concept of cryptanalysis is that every valid system is self confirming, when you find this to be true about a system, such as the stone tablets, the only conclusion to make is that they are a valid cryptic system, which the stone tablets are.
Travis lacked the knowledge required to create such a system.

did you know travis?

 

[Al D]

did you know travis?

I think you are mistaking common cleverness with actual formal education

 

[azdave35]

I think you are mistaking common cleverness with actual formal education

no alan..actually i'm not...if you guys are going to play detective you should learn some detective skills...travis grew up in the depression (you know...the time when everyone in the country was dead flat broke except the big shots)...nobody could afford college so they schooled their selves....you have no idea of the level of education travis had..he could read and that's all he needed to school himself...you guys are assuming he was uneducated with no proof of that...alot of travis's relatives saw him carving those doorstops...like i said...if anyone has proof he didn't then lets have it...

 

[Al D]

no alan..actually i'm not...if you guys are going to play detective you should learn some detective skills...travis grew up in the depression (you know...the time when everyone in the country was dead flat broke except the big shots)...nobody could afford college so they schooled their selves....you have no idea of the level of education travis had..he could read and that's all he needed to school himself...you guys are assuming he was uneducated with no proof of that...alot of travis's relatives saw him carving those doorstops...like i said...if anyone has proof he didn't then lets have it...

Not on this forum

 

[azdave35]

Not on this forum

in other words you don't...alot of men spent alot of money,time and aggravation investigating and gathering evidence from the tumlinson family and they have all publicly posted this said info for free online...it's all out there and it overwhelmingly points to travis carving those doorstops...in other words there is a ton of evidence ..some of you guys swear up and down he didn't carve them and they are real..but when asked for proof they stutter and stammer and start backing up..or they say they cant post it online....there isn't one single shred of evidence those maps are genuine and tons they aren't..if you have proof post it..or don't comment at all

 

[Al D]

in other words you don't...alot of men spent alot of money,time and aggravation investigating and gathering evidence from the tumlinson family and they have all publicly posted this said info for free online...it's all out there and it overwhelmingly points to travis carving those doorstops...in other words there is a ton of evidence ..some of you guys swear up and down he didn't carve them and they are real..but when asked for proof they stutter and stammer and start backing up..or they say they cant post it online....there isn't one single shred of evidence those maps are genuine and tons they aren't..if you have proof post it..or don't comment at all

I can state the same about you, you say you have proof that the tablets are fake, yet you will not post it.
so what is the difference, except that our convictions land on opposite sides of the fence.
but let me put this to you; If you are correct, what does it mean? Nothing except another boring story of some looser trying to make a name for himself by creating a hoax. But.....if by some slim chance the tablets are authentic, it would mean a hell of a lot, to history and such, which is exactly why such info cannot be posted on a site such as this.
have a great day,
P.S. I can and will post what comments I choose, only a mod can censor me

 

[Al D]

Dave, one more thing...I gave you the option of seeing my evidence one week before the rendezvous, but you declined
nuff said

 

[azdave35]

I can state the same about you, you say you have proof that the tablets are fake, yet you will not post it.
so what is the difference, except that our convictions land on opposite sides of the fence.
but let me put this to you; If you are correct, what does it mean? Nothing except another boring story of some looser trying to make a name for himself by creating a hoax. But.....if by so e slime chance the tablets are authentic, it would mean a hell of a lot, to history and such, which is exactly why such info cannot be posted on a site such as this.
have a great day,
P.S. I can and will post what comments I choose, only a mod can censor me

alan...you should probably lay off that drink you have posted ...its a little early for that...read my last post...the proof you ask for has been already posted on this forum and a few others...i don't have to post any proof..its already posted...i'm beginning to think you and deducer are one in the same..or at least you went to the same college...my proof is here for everyone to see...where is yours?....i will tell you one thing (i've already poted this but here goes again)..a local guy found a stone map in the florence junction area...and it was much smaller and crudely carved..i have held this and examined it...so has tom k....tumlinsons family said travis did find some stone maps but they were smaller and different color...they all said the maps in the museum were carved by travis

 

[Al D]

alan...you should probably lay off that drink you have posted ...its a little early for that...read my last post...the proof you ask for has been already posted on this forum and a few others...i don't have to post any proof..its already posted...i'm beginning to think you and deducer are one in the same..or at least you went to the same college...my proof is here for everyone to see...where is yours?....i will tell you one thing (i've already poted this but here goes again)..a local guy found a stone map in the florence junction area...and it was much smaller and crudely carved..i have held this and examined it...so has tom k....tumlinsons family said travis did find some stone maps but they were smaller and different color...they all said the maps in the museum were carved by travis

I am beginning to think that it is impossible to have a conversation with you wherein the personal attacks and sly comments are not part of it,
you obviously have some deep seated anger about these stones, so I will drop the subject.

 

[azdave35]

I am beginning to think that it is impossible to have a conversation with you wherein the personal attacks and sly comments are not part of it,
you obviously have some deep seated anger about these stones, so I will drop the subject.

no anger here alan....just asking for proof of what you say...and just like deducer you have nothing...when you run out of options you pick up your marbles and go home

 

[Al D]

no anger here alan....just asking for proof of what you say...and just like deducer you have nothing...when you run out of options you pick up your marbles and go home

What is it that I posted that requires proof, show me specifically where I claim that the tablets are real, or that I have solved them.
I only stated that valid cryptic systems are self confirming

 

[azdave35]

Dave, one more thing...I gave you the option of seeing my evidence one week before the rendezvous, but you declined
nuff said

alan...i have some health issues...i don't remember you inviting me to look at what you have..but that doesn't mean you didn't invite me...i cant remember squat anymore...i believe you are taking this a little too serious...as i have said many times..i come here for entertainment...you guys are more fun than tv...i would be glad to see what you have for proof

 

[azdave35]

What is it that I posted that requires proof, show me specifically where I claim that the tablets are real, or that I have solved them.
I only stated that valid cryptic systems are self confirming

by stating that travis didn't have the education to carve the doorstops you opened yourself up for debate

 

[deducer]

people change as they get older...the carvings you saw that travis did were carved when he was alot younger....how do you know he was uneducated?...alot of people back then couldn't afford college so they were self educated by reading books and hands on experience....you mistakenly assume all hillbillies are uneducated idiots...i hate to break this to you and shatter your bubble but most of the modern conveniences that you are enjoying today were invented by an uneducated hillbilly in his garage...some of us got smarts real good
besides ..you don't know everything that was uncovered in texas and oklahoma and with your attitude you probably never will

The existence of anthropomorphism on the Stone Maps has nothing to do with Travis's education, or whether he was dumb or not.

He just didn't employ it in any of his carvings, nor were there two sides (complimentary to each other) to any of his carvings.

My only interest in what happened in Texas would be to confirm if the H/P stone came to the family via Pegleg Tumlinson, or if it was found using waybills or maps that were in Pegleg's possessions and of which he had plenty.

Did the H/P stone come from south of the border or was it buried "north of the river"?

 

[nobodie]

For me it's what's on the stones that counts. If I found a treasure, I wouldn't tell. I'd be laughing my az off all the way to the bank.

 

[Goldseeker1]

For me it's what's on the stones that counts. If I found a treasure, I wouldn't tell. I'd be laughing my az off all the way to the bank.

To bad most people will never understand this logic.

 

[Oroblanco]

Before we get any further on this, just consider this.

Travis Tumlinson carved stones. Apparently he liked to carve stones, so much that he even carved the chimney of the house. He liked to carve Spanish treasure themed stones. Now remember he is the one who supposedly "Found" the Peralta stones. It would be quite a coincidence wouldn't it, that of all the people on the planet, that Travis, a guy who loved to carve Spanish treasure themed stones, is the same one who found the Peralta stones? Doesn't that alone give you pause to consider that just maybe, Travis carved the Peralta stones himself, as Garry was told by family members of Travis?