For those curious slot riffle vs spiral riffle in Gold Well collection efficiency

[LP13]

There were some who were curious whether the slotted riffles were capturing most of the gold (doing the work) in the Gold Well sluice. A picture is worth a thousand words.



For those curious then what the horizontal slots are there for, they are 'mixing wells' that allow the heavy and light material to separate more rapidly (notice chamfer on the leading edge of the slot not typical of a standard drop riffle), and to buffer material temporarily in case the operator overloads the sluice, so that material doesn't load up and wash out of the sluice before the gold is separated and captured.

Very little gold was collected in the slot riffles. Majority of the fine gold (not shown in the photo), was collected around 1/2 way down the sluice where the braking action of the slot riffles slowed the water velocity sufficiently. The chamfer leads the water down into the pocket where it creates turbulence and brakes the water velocity a small amount between slots, resulting in the same effect as a widening sluice.

Material was processed in Alaska.

 

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[LP13]

The post is a response to several in the past who wondered how much gold the Gold Well spiral riffles get vs the slot riffles. Until now I had no pictures to illustrate the effectiveness of the slot riffles.

The only SPAM here is the spamming you are doing in an attempt to bias this thread in a typical forum troll fashion.
Having said that I won't be posting more or reading this thread further, so have all the fun you want

I wonder what the moderators will put up with though ...

 

[bill-costa rica]

i thought it was good info, good pics

bill/cr

 

[delnorter]

I was one of the people wondring about the slot riffles versus the wells. Good photos.

I also talked with some very successful prospectors in Happy Camp who were using the Gold Well. They couldn't say enough nice things about it. They are truly impressed with it's performance.

Mike

 

[AzViper]

The Sluice are still priced out of site and still using the CHEAP Harbor Freight pumps. If Gold Well would lower the price as they said they would then the product will start to move. The people behind the product are not willing to take a loss in order to make gains by selling volumes of the sluice. The machining cost is high due to the cost of the CNC machining so the end user paying a huge price. They need to move volumes to make money and lower the cost. The simple solution is to make the sluice from a plastic that durable, long lasting, and catch the gold. If the product was under $200.00 it would solve their problem.

Another option would be to take the CNC program to China and have the Deep Wells machined and then final assembly made here in USA. Problem with that is the up front cost as the minimum order would be 3000 to 5000 units.

 

[Keigan]

I am wondering also, placing an order on Friday.

 

[russau]

in another thread awhile back they said they had several of these units they were going to give away to anyone that sent or notified them to be put on their list.... i did so and never heard another thing about it. i was going to post a question about it but this thread poped up, so i guess that answered my question without asking it!

 

[LP13]

in another thread awhile back they said they had several of these units they were going to give away to anyone that sent or notified them to be put on their list.... i did so and never heard another thing about it. i was going to post a question about it but this thread poped up, so i guess that answered my question without asking it!

*sigh*

Check who posted. It wasn't Gold Well or HM Research. I saw the posts too. Said that there were 25 sluices a machinist friend of his was making that he would give away free 'one time deal'. He said 'drop riffle sluice' however. I don't think he meant copies of the Gold Well. The Gold Well has spiral vortex generating pockets, and is NOT a typical drop riffle sluice. If you notified them go back to that thread and see who it was or if you PM'd them look in your sent messages to find out who.

As far as cost goes, the sluice is priced on value not material costs. In reality the vortex plates are not that expensive. Does anyone know why you pay more for a patented new drug than for it's generic when the patent expires? Value and the cost of development and as a reward for the new idea or product. It's not about cost.

Viper, don't you have some involvement with Royal sluices? Perhaps if you like I can set up a test side by side with Royal's quality sluices. I am sure that would be educational. Say the word and I will get some impartial group like a gold prospecting club to do the testing if you like. If so just tell me which Royal sluice model you would like in the video and I can post it on YouTube no matter what the outcome. Perhaps some of the people here on Treasurenet would like to see comparisons to other products? If so post here and let me know which. It could be very informative. I really had preferred not to get into doing that kind of comparison videos, but maybe the time has come Let me know. It's just a matter of time anyhow until someone else does anyways.

It was never a goal to be the cheapest, or even 'as cheap' as other sluices, as it's NOT another sluice. Even if this sluice cost me $1 to manufacture, it would still be priced where it is at. Obviously it does not cost us $1 being made of stainless steel and aircraft aluminum, however.

I am not sure where some people get their information but they suggest we have a problem with manufacturing or profits or something. Not sure really what problem they are referring to because we don't really have any issues that need being dealt with. I stated before that some day they may go down in price but I made no specific promises, nor do I need to. No more than your gas station is required to promise you a price break next month on gas prices or the manufacturer of your table saw needs to promise you that next year you can buy the same model with more hp for less! And if you haven't noticed, costs keep going up, not down. So it is more likely to cost more in the future than it does now, which generally means a price increase. Anyone paying less for groceries this year over last?? I'm not.

We do not mass manufacture these things. And we probably won't mass manufacture them. I think I like the idea of hiring people, neighbors and friends who live here, where I live, who need work, to make these and NOT farming the work out to mass manufacutrers in China. But I guess that seems to be the norm these days, cheap plastic mass manufactured in China. But it really makes me wonder why someone would suggest that we do that ... do you think they do??

Nah, we'll take the road less traveled, thank you. So far we have not had a single customer contact us telling us they would rather have had it made out of plastic and cheaper. The ones yelling about the cost probably wouldn't buy one anyhow, not even if they were just ten bucks. Look at the source to determine the motivation, I always say.

 

[Keigan]

Why on earth are you spending $550.00 for one of these sluices?

Sir,

Respectfully, my reasons are my own based upon my research, experience and situation. Once I've incorporated the sluice into my tools - I'll be happy to post a review regarding HOW the sluice performs for my needs and conditions.

 

[AzViper]

Having said that I won't be posting more or reading this thread further, so have all the fun you want

LOL, I knew my post would bring you back, it’s like you need to protect your investment. Sorry to break your bubble but I have no connection to Royal other than I am a believer in their quality of products, use of material, etc. I paid the price that’s on their website of which I may add does not change weekly such as your website pricing does.

I like this quote from you, “In reality the vortex plates are not that expensive”. We all know that the three sided sluice box cost very little in material and labor to make. I suppose you most likely have less than $100.00 in material invested per sluice, but you’re asking $550.00 for you sluice. I doubt that you have many orders come in daily. Remember these forums are geared for the DIY and many get a lot of satisfaction in building their own equipment. I know I do as I can build better than what can be purchased, although I did purchase my Drywasher from Royal.

I have only seen one other post in the Tnet forums that someone is using your sluice. I suspect that’s a true indication that the sluice is over-priced. I kinda like to compare it to a college football game, Let’s say the stadium holds 80,000 people but only 40,000 show up having paid $30.00 per ticket plus $5.00 for parking. Let’s say the ticket price was reduced to $15.00 now the stadium is full of 80,000 screaming fans. Now the college gross ticket sales is the same, but their concession sales doubled and the parking has doubled. Plus you have 40,000 more people that may buy T shirts and souvenirs. So who wins in this case?

The idea is to get the product in as many hands that you possibly can but at $550.00 you are eliminating many potential buyers and users that would help you promote your product. Lower the price and watch the sale go up. As I have said I am about quality and your sluice looks to be a quality built product that’s over-priced with limited sales, if the sluice was being purchased by prospectors I suspect I and others would be reading post of those who purchased the sluice. I suspect in the near future there will be a flood of new members claiming to be using the product kinda like when the product first hit the forums with a number of accounts promoting the sluice.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Sir,

Respectfully, my reasons are my own based upon my research, experience and situation. Once I've incorporated the sluice into my tools - I'll be happy to post a review regarding HOW the sluice performs for my needs and conditions.

Your other posts indicate you are just starting out in sluicing and likely don't even have down your basics of setup and running a sluice. You're posts here seem "interesting"

 

[AzViper]

Sir,

Respectfully, my reasons are my own based upon my research, experience and situation. Once I've incorporated the sluice into my tools - I'll be happy to post a review regarding HOW the sluice performs for my needs and conditions.

Your just starting out based on your earlier post and your going to buy this sluice. For $550.00 you can buy most of all your gear plus a quality sluice. "based upon my research, experience and situation" Yet in your earlier posts you wrote,

"I'm new to prospecting, certain I'll start with some crazy questions. I'm fortunate to have a 4x4 truck that will go any place and hopefully bring me, the dog and all our gear home without chaos. ..."

"My first and only purchase of concentrate was from Eureka Joes in Alaska - I started with an 1/8 mesh classifier, to my surprise there was an elusive boulder of gold staring me down. I pulled 3..."

Looks like your going to make a crazy purchase...

 

[DizzyDigger]

*sigh*

As far as cost goes, the sluice is priced on value not material costs.

And that value is based on what consumers are willing to pay for your product. Who has
set the price you are selling it at, and has the market research been done to determine
if any prospectors are even willing to pay that much? I'm not debating here, just sharing
some experience from 30+ years in manufacturing, sales and marketing.

Price it at 50% of your current retail, and it's still higher priced than just about any
sluice on the market. Get it in front of prospectors at shows and annual club gatherings,
and work it side by side with a Bazooka, a Keene and maybe a couple others.

SHOW that it's worth spending those extra $. Don't want to see it in video during a
perfect run, but in action in a creek/river. As is, at $550.00 it would need to perform
sexual favors and cook a fine dinner (as well as catch gold) in order for me to rationalize
spending that much hard-earned savings.

Also, shouldn't that gold be sitting in the top 30% (or even 25%) of that sluice. When
I start seeing gold half-way down my sluice I know that something isn't working right,
and the gold shouldn't be so close to the "EXIT" sign.

I understand it's very high quality workmanship, and yes, that adds value...but do I really
need it? Show me that I do, and then we can talk turkey.

 

[LP13]

And that value is based on what consumers are willing to pay for your product. Who has
set the price you are selling it at, and has the market research been done to determine
if any prospectors are even willing to pay that much? I'm not debating here, just sharing
some experience from 30+ years in manufacturing, sales and marketing.

Price it at 50% of your current retail, and it's still higher priced than just about any
sluice on the market. Get it in front of prospectors at shows and annual club gatherings,
and work it side by side with a Bazooka, a Keene and maybe a couple others.

SHOW that it's worth spending those extra $. Don't want to see it in video during a
perfect run, but in action in a creek/river. As is, at $550.00 it would need to perform
sexual favors and cook a fine dinner (as well as catch gold) in order for me to rationalize
spending that much hard-earned savings.

Also, shouldn't that gold be sitting in the top 30% (or even 25%) of that sluice. When
I start seeing gold half-way down my sluice I know that something isn't working right,
and the gold shouldn't be so close to the "EXIT" sign.

I understand it's very high quality workmanship, and yes, that adds value...but do I really
need it? Show me that I do, and then we can talk turkey.

One of my customers at Happy Camp, CA has used my sluice exclusively this year and has informed me that he is far ahead of all the others there now in gold recovery this year. Is that because he is exceptionally lucky this year? Or could it have something to do with the fact that this year he is using the Gold Well sluice exclusively?? It can process huge amounts of material with excellent efficiency, without loading up. Those who have taken the time to study it, like this gentleman that posted here today announcing that he is going to purchase one, probably understands the difference between my sluice and a standard type sluice. Why do you slight him and invalidate his knowledge? I offered to have unbiased comparisons done and documented and put on YouTube. I will take suggestions. Just post your requests here and I will see what I can do to have someone do the testing.

The sluice has and IS being seen at club gatherings such as GPAA and GPAP digs around Arizona, where they field tested it on more than one occasion now. There is some raw video of one such event if you search YouTube for GPAP/GPAA Dig Field test of Gold Well sluice. Basically it shows the operation of the sluice by one person who tested it and arranged for the field test. The material was panned for gold after passing through the sluice by a man named Woody who is a GPAA member and professional panner. He found no gold in the runoff and plenty of gold in the sluice. It is also being seen by the New 49ers in Happy Camp, CA. It was at the Albuquerque, NM show also here a while back.

One video that was done by Reed Luken, put it in use in a stream in Placerville, CA with a stream flare. They ran the sluice beyond recommended settings, and it was backed up by a KEENE A52. Even pushed beyond it's limits, it didn't even lose enough gold to be measured. The Keene only captured a 'half dozen micro specks' in Reed's words. That video also is on YouTube. In recent tests in Happy Camp they ran 20 buckets of material in a little over 10 minutes through the sluice. You may find that one of interest. Here is the link:



I found it interesting that he made comment that he saw more super fine gold than he had ever seen before (in the cleanup video). Which is what the Gold Well excels at, fine gold recovery. It captures "all the gold", not just the big stuff. And anyone that thinks that that small stuff doesn't add up, I have a 3.5 gm nugget here from gold recovered by Aqua Regia from dirt with gold too small to see that was collected from the material I demonstrated the unit with here. It represents about 30 buckets of dirt and the ultra fine gold collected by the Gold Well. That's $150 or so and it doesn't take long for that fine gold to pay for the sluice no matter what it costs!

The gold does not sit in the top portion of the riffle because it is not a 'normal' riffle.
And if I made the sluice how everyone else wanted me to make it, materials, construction, design, etc., I guess then I wouldn't have much of a new product now would I! LOL. It would just be another one of a million other sluices and we wouldn't be having this conversation now!

You look on eBay and check pricing on sluices, I find plenty there that run over $300. And that's for a standard sheet metal sluice with standard riffle technology.

Martin Gold Sluice 2 1 2" Dredge Highbanker Combo with Stand Hoses | eBay

Glad you are happy I am back Viper. Bet you were bored!

 

[DizzyDigger]

Why do you slight him and invalidate his knowledge?

I slighted no one, but am not about to debate the issue.

In the video (only 240p..very poor video quality ) I can see the fellow
dumping buckets of material through it faster than I would feed a
Bazooka. Can't imagine how that surface could capture all that small
gold with the material being dumped over the riffles and washed out
so fast.

I'm in the far NW of the US...If you make it up to the Gold Show in Monroe
next year I'll certainly have a good, first hand look at it.

The sluice is of very high quality construction, no question there, and no doubt
there is a lot of design/engineering time that must be paid for. No disrespect, but
but I honestly believe that it is beyond affordable for the average prospector.

I've tried various combinations of materials in my A52, and have found that
running V mat with a double layer of expanded metal over the top is super
efficient at capturing the fines and black sands (containing the super fines).
I bought it back in about 1983, and while it may not be as efficient as
your GoldWell, it's what I've got and it does a fine job for me.

 

[LP13]

I slighted no one, but am not about to debate the issue.

In the video (only 240p..very poor video quality ) I can see the fellow
dumping buckets of material through it faster than I would feed a
Bazooka. Can't imagine how that surface could capture all that small
gold with the material being dumped over the riffles and washed out
so fast.

I'm in the far NW of the US...If you make it up to the Gold Show in Monroe
next year I'll certainly have a good, first hand look at it.

The sluice is of very high quality construction, no question there, and no doubt
there is a lot of design/engineering time that must be paid for. No disrespect, but
but I honestly believe that it is beyond affordable for the average prospector.

I've tried various combinations of materials in my A52, and have found that
running V mat with a double layer of expanded metal over the top is super
efficient at capturing the fines and black sands (containing the super fines).
I bought it back in about 1983, and while it may not be as efficient as
your GoldWell, it's what I've got and it does a fine job for me.

Sorry about the video, I didn't have anything to do with it. I think he uploaded it in lower quality due to him being in a remote area probably with limited upload bandwidth or limited time. I am not sure though to be honest. I have asked if he could get me the video in a higher resolution though but I have not heard back yet on that.

To understand the Gold Well you will need to understand not only riffles and eddies and vortices, but boundary layer effects and molecular attraction on the nano scales. That is what I learned and applied that resulted in this design.

There are several of my customers and a dealer in Washington. Is Everson near you? If they agree you might be able to go there and look for yourself if you like.

As far as affordability, let me just say this. Firstly, I get the idea that people thing I am some multi-million $ enterprise. I am not. I am just a poor working stiff who 10 years ago fought his way out of homelessness after a divorce left me depressed for years and unable to work. I refused to take a nickel in government assistance and fought my way back out of my mire. And I must say it's been a very hard road to get where I am now. But I'm here, much to the chagrin of some

I do not have some huge manufacturing facility. Nor do I have the investment money to buy $100,000 molds, 3000 part orders from China or do market research.

I sell sluices to those who see them or learn about them from others who have them generally, and the performance of the sluice and it's quality speak for itself. There is yet a lot of hand work involved, but as time goes on more and more the sluice is becoming ever more refined. But having said that I have not had anyone who saw it in person yet say that it was NOT a quality device. I never wanted to be manufacturing 100,000 sluices a year and have 2000 employees. For now I prefer to manufacture small quantities and grow slowly, focusing on further design improvements and quality improvements. Too rapid of growth is almost certain to kill a new business.

I just recently ordered titanium rings to test them and see how they will work as pull rings on the stainless quick release pins and if I can find them at a reasonable price somewhere. I focus on quality improvements as I said. Because I am a small manufacturer, it is OK that I do not sell them to everyone for now. I take pride in my product and will stack it up any day against any device out there.

Although I have not advertised it, I have tested it against most common devices sold on the market today, both sluice type devices and gold concentrators and separation devices, and my sluice excels in both arenas. That is why on my hm research website that I call the sluice a "sluice/concentrator" because in essence that is what it is. When finished with a run my 6 x 36" sluice will leave you with all your gold in just a 1/4 cup or so of concentrates. Highly concentrated concentrates.

There are a lot of people who want to advise me how to design, manufacture and sell my sluice. To any of you who want to do more than talk about helping out, please, drop on by! I have a mop and broom I have been needing to get to for some time now! Maybe you can sweep while I mop??

 

[Keigan]

Your just starting out based on your earlier post and your going to buy this sluice. For $550.00 you can buy most of all your gear plus a quality sluice. "based upon my research, experience and situation" Yet in your earlier posts you wrote,

"I'm new to prospecting, certain I'll start with some crazy questions. I'm fortunate to have a 4x4 truck that will go any place and hopefully bring me, the dog and all our gear home without chaos. ..."

"My first and only purchase of concentrate was from Eureka Joes in Alaska - I started with an 1/8 mesh classifier, to my surprise there was an elusive boulder of gold staring me down. I pulled 3..."

Looks like your going to make a crazy purchase...

I'll bow out, thanks for the fun - you can ignore my PM, no response necessary. Six posts on this site and I'm done with this crowd.

 

[Keigan]

Tis is BS, AzViper - you have attacked me in a public forum, repeatedly, I've got thick skin and as a man I'm standing my ground. You sir, are in the wrong and you set a poor example of a seasoned member of this forum.

 

[bill-costa rica]

Azviper , why don't you give it a rest and crawl back in your hole ...... you are starting to piss me off

 

[bill-costa rica]

treasure hunter, you are a mod here… why don’t you put a stop to this…… enough is enough no matter what lp 13 does or says there is some climbing down his throat

this really needs to stop. the man can sell his product at whatever price he wants. the market will say if it is right or wrong not a bunch of ducks on this forum. please clean this mess up now.

bill in Costa Rica