Jones Gold, Fort Huachuca, Arizona...

[tomjiggy]

I think it'll be a pleasure to go out there just to prove/disprove the story. I'm in it for the adventure, if that's all there is to it.

 

[Oroblanco]

Not to derail the topic but I see this a lot, people are skeptical about these treasure "legends" and think they are fiction. If you look into it, the idea that a black soldier would approach his commander with a made up tale of a cave of gold bars, is even more unlikely than the story itself. The fact that nothing was found, does not prove that the Army took it, we simply do not know what happened to it, perhaps his original partner had secretly returned and cleaned it out, or perhaps Jones decided not to trust the Army and took them to the wrong spot to dig?

These "legends" are most often NOT made up out of whole cloth but are based on real events. Truth is very often stranger than any fiction.


Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mod ?? Mod?? we don need no stinkin mod!



I didn't say that, the bandido in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre did. I swear on my mules honor twas him. I LOVE our mod.

 

[gollum]

You really cannot debate your point of view without resorting to personal and childish insults. That says a lot about you and your upbringing.


There is so much contradictory nonsense in what you say and holes the size of the Grand Canyon in the alleged story. Nobody has accused Jones of outright lying - this is something you've wanted to see and have said so based on your own prejudices. When you read something that disagrees with your own stance, do so with a more calm demeanour and perhaps you'll see what was actually said as oppose to what you think was said. You blatantly pick and choose what you respond to and what you accept as the 'truth'. Whatever sails you boat sunshine.


From now on I will refuse to engage with some of the obvious cack and nonsensical self-absorbed on here.


IPUK


PS. Cover your bold head in the sun, maybe that is a cause of some of your ramblings. Coming to think of it, I am really glad that our viewpoints differ. It proves that I am still sane!!!

Everybody Else,


Thanks for all the support. I have always done my best to be as grounded and fact based in my arguments as possible. I have never come into an argument with a "dog in the hunt" opinion. I like to think that I am intellectually honest enough to say that if someone provided me with irrefutable proof that my theories or arguments were wrong, then I would say so without hesitation.


IPUK,


I know you made the statement about Doc-D, but I feel I must add that I have no problem with my government. I spent 14 years of my life jumping out of airplanes in both the US Navy and the US Army. I don't even dislike the Limeys! A couple of my good friends were Royal Marines that went to the Falklands on the HMS Hermes. One didn't make it back.


Also, you're saying "HIGHLY UNLIKELY" does not constitute any kind of proof.


Lets just look at what I said:


Jones provided specific measurements of the interior of the cavern and the location and depth of the entrance. Jones also said that inside this cavern were stacks of gold bars, a chest, and a golden throne. Jones had a flashlight. He said with ZERO ambiguity that what he saw were stacks of gold bars, a chest, and a golden throne. He didn't say that someone told him about the treasure. He said that he saw it with his own eyes. There is no chance that Jones would mistake a pile of rocks or dirt for a pile of gold bars, a treasure chest, or a golden throne. Simply stated: JONES WAS EITHER TELLING THE TRUTH OR HE WAS LYING. When it comes to his statements there is no third alternative (unless you think maybe he had eaten some Peyote and was hallucinating everything). The first part of Jones' Story was proved true when Quest and SRI did GPR, Ground Resistivity, and Sonic Surveys of the area. I only said that since the first part of his story has been proven true, why not give him the benefit of some doubt about the second half.


You Said that you thought it possible he had been in the cavern (in order to have the measurements), but doubt the part about the treasure. YOU ARE, in effect, calling Jones a liar. Like I said, he was either telling the truth or lying. When Jones told the story, at no time did he EVER say that there was any chance that he did not see what he saw. TRUTH or LIE.

This is Jone's Drawing:




There is absolutely nothing in anything I said that contains ANY holes. You make an accusation, but don't follow it with facts. Please do so.


Mike

 

[Frankn]

Well, I have no doubt that it is gone. The big question in my mine is Did some officers retire early and kind of live the good life or did some one in a high position in the government suddenly accumulate wealth. This money from these caches is going somewhere. Maybe there is an agency that is hunting these caches. I have been in many 'secret' gov. locations and heard many things. We had 2 La Cross GPR sats in orbit that found tunnels under the Mexican border that were 20' deep, And that was years ago. The military use to map just about every inch of ground with a 3 plane team. I was told the info was used for property tax purposes. That was film, so you know how long they have been at it. I think the sats do it now. The sats recently found a lost city in Egypt. I forget how deep that was. I suspect that there is a Treasure Hunting Dept in the gov. that is a black agency which benefits a few well to do. Ever notice that the list of billionairs is growing rapidly in a bad economy? Just some thoughts,

Frank

 

[gollum]

Well, I have no doubt that it is gone. The big question in my mine is Did some officers retire early and kind of live the good life or did some one in a high position in the government suddenly accumulate wealth. This money from these caches is going somewhere. Maybe there is an agency that is hunting these caches. I have been in many 'secret' gov. locations and heard many things. We had 2 La Cross GPR sats in orbit that found tunnels under the Mexican border that were 20' deep, And that was years ago. The military use to map just about every inch of ground with a 3 plane team. I was told the info was used for property tax purposes. That was film, so you know how long they have been at it. I think the sats do it now. The sats recently found a lost city in Egypt. I forget how deep that was. I suspect that there is a Treasure Hunting Dept in the gov. that is a black agency which benefits a few well to do. Ever notice that the list of billionairs is growing rapidly in a bad economy? Just some thoughts,

FrankView attachment 1097165
View attachment 1097166

I doubt there's any government agency that hunts treasures. There are enough laws in place that would force a treasure finder to start doing all the hoop jumping. They are counting on some poor schlub to do the finding and report it. That way they can take their time and figure the baest way to try and steal it from them. I don't think they could get away today with what they did to the Noss's and Jones. If I found a treasure so big that it required me to jump through all the hoops, I would hire one of the many independent Sat Pic Companies to geolocate a satellite for me, and feed me 24/7 info on any activity at my site (and have a local armed security company on call 24/7). It would be worth a couple hundred thousand for a several hundred million dollar treasure. Satellite is better than armed guards.

One of the reasons I believe in the (at one time) existence of the Ft Huachuca Treasure is due to some mentionings of it by a couple of government agencies in relation to the Victorio Peak Treasure.

I can tell you now that there is a MUCH better than likely chance that whatever WAS in the ground there, is long gone. If it were still there, Kenworthy and SRI would have without a doubt found it when they were there.

Mike

 

[Frankn]

I doubt there's any government agency that hunts treasures. There are enough laws in place that would force a treasure finder to start doing all the hoop jumping. They are counting on some poor schlub to do the finding and report it. That way they can take their time and figure the baest way to try and steal it from them. I don't think they could get away today with what they did to the Noss's and Jones. If I found a treasure so big that it required me to jump through all the hoops, I would hire one of the many independent Sat Pic Companies to geolocate a satellite for me, and feed me 24/7 info on any activity at my site (and have a local armed security company on call 24/7). It would be worth a couple hundred thousand for a several hundred million dollar treasure. Satellite is better than armed guards.

One of the reasons I believe in the (at one time) existence of the Ft Huachuca Treasure is due to some mentionings of it by a couple of government agencies in relation to the Victorio Peak Treasure.

I can tell you now that there is a MUCH better than likely chance that whatever WAS in the ground there, is long gone. If it were still there, Kenworthy and SRI would have without a doubt found it when they were there.

Mike

Well Mike, Since I have seen no government records on the depositions of the money from Noss or Jones, My mine hovers over the black agency theory. As for laws, they only apply to us. Since when did black agencies follow the laws? Just my unsupported thoughts. Frank

 

[gollum]

Frankn,

If you read the books "The Gold House", they go into a lot of detail regarding which refining companies were used, and where the gold was later sold. Waaaaaay too much detail to post here.

Nothing to do with laws. Same reason Spain doesn't actively hunt shipwrecks. They wait for others to do all the footwork and exploration, then they try to swoop in and take everything.

Mike

 

[Crow]

Hello All

Just for clarification was Robert Jones originally from Texas?

Crow

 

[gollum]

Don't know about "originally" but he lived in Dallas in 1959.

Mike

 

[Crow]

Thanks I have some information that may clarify a few details.

Crow

 

[gollum]

Well, we know he was on disability from a back injury he sustained during the war (but did not receive in combat). He looked to be quite the eater as well! HAHAHA

Mike

 

[Frankn]

I have a theory on the origin of the cache. Since geological maps show the presence of gold next to the fort in two areas, and because of the gold throne, I suspect an ancient unknown Indian tribe cached the items. Frank

 

[Crow]

In researching into his background I found his time in the Army was only for about 12 months.

I found records of him in US Army enlistment records 1938-1946. And the following

Robert Jones

Date of birth Jan 1st 1904

African American

State of residence Texas.

Place of enlistment Dallas

Date 25th of Jan 1941.

Married one year of high school

Civilian job Semi skilled painter maintenance worker.

His career in army was over by June 1942. His working career in army was about year and half. There is no mention of his termination from active service. He was training in part to be part of the 93rd infantry division.

Crow

 

[Crow]

So in some respect Robert Jones time there is confirmed. While Robert Jones should be noted as a common name. However there was only one African America born in 1904 with that name and the only African American by that that name enlisted in 1941.

He was 38 year old at time of enlistment. reference to him can be found in WW2 draft card Index and in US Army enlistment records 1938-1946.

However here is some thing curious Robert Jones claimed as per the life magazine story that Sam Mays died in Italy?

In fact I found out quite a bit about Sam Mays in fact his full name is Samuel P Mays.


Samuel P Mayes

Date of birth 1921

African American

Place of residence unknown

Place of enlistment Jacksonville Florida

Married single

Civilian job Porter

His career was in 593 field artillery During the period 15 May 1942 to 31 January 1944, the Battalion conducted a complete training cycle in preparation for overseas movement. After this training, the Battalion moved from Fort Huachuca to Essex, California, with the 93rd Infantry Division, participated in Army Forces tests at Iron Mountain and departed for Camp Stoneman on 25 January 1944.

Next move was to Fort Mason, San Francisco, on 30 January 1944 and on the next day, the unit boarded the USS Willard A. Holbrook for the voyage overseas. The Battalion crossed the equator on 8 February 1944, and disembarked on Kokumbona Beach, Guadalcanal, on 17 February 1944.

On 26 March, 1944 the 593rd departed Guadalcanal as part of the 25th Regiment Combat Team and arrived in Yorokina, Bougaineville, on 28 March 1944. On arrival the unit was attached to Americal Division Artillery by the formation of an artillery battalion group with the 246th Field Artillery Battalion. During the Bougaineville campaign, the 593rd was in direct support of the 25th Infantry, fired missions in support of the 182nd Infantry and 93rd Provisional Brigade.
On 15 July 1944 the 593rd departed Bougaineville for Green Island for advance training and maintenance preparatory to movement to Finsch-hafen, New Guinea, in February 1945. The Battalion moved on to Hollandia, and further, to Morotai, Netherland East Indies. On Morotai the unit was placed in direct support of the Second Battalion, 268th Infantry Division. Still later, the unit proceeded to Mindanao, Philippine Islands, and by 15 December 1945, the men started departing for disposition to the States. Battalion Commander, Staff, and battery commanders were relieved of assignment and duty 4 January 1946.The 593rd was deactivated on 3 February 1946.

Samuel Mays lived through the war and was never sent to Italy only the Pacific theater. He lived later in life in Detroit where he died in 1991. His two addresses he was living at this address in 1983, 5080 Harding St Detroit.





Later he died at 1489 Chelsea St Detroit in 1991 below.



He was the only African American Samuel (Sam) Mays who enlisted in 1941 and would have been there at the same time as Robert Jones. Ironic is it not Mays could of confirmed Jones discovery, yet it was no so.
As for Mays he at least did not seem to profit from any alleged discovery.

So the Life magazine story does have a bit more scope to get to the details.

Crow

 

[Garry]

Crow,

I'm probably missing something as I have only scanned the Life Magazine article.

Jones named his partner as Pvt Robert Mayes? (Samuel P Mayes?)

The article doesn't read to me like it was Jones who said Robert Mayes died in Italy but Col. Eldridge Bacon who was investigating the Jones story?

Garry

(Edit) I just realized that I was not actually reading the Life magazine article. Not sure if there was a link to that or not. I was using a previously posted link.

http://huachuca.army.mil/files/History_JonesGold.pdf for the Mayes identity.

 

[gollum]

I can't find any Life Magazine Articles referring to Ft Huachuca.

LIFE ARCHIVES

It also looks like the kind folks at Ft Huachuca are being intentionally misleading in their version of the story. NONE of the units being trained at Ft Huachuca went to Italy. The 93rd, the 25th, and the 593rd ALL went to the Pacific Theater. If Mayes would have gone there, they should have known that. The base historians have access to all that information too. If Jones had told them that Mayes died in Italy, they would have NO DOUBT used that information to prove he was lying! I wonder if they told Jones that Mayes had been killed, so he wouldn't try and find him? If I remember correctly, Jones hurt his back before deployment, and was sent home before going to war. Since Military Deployment Locations are a huge secret (especially during wartime), it is very likely that Jones never knew where his buddy had been deployed to. When he gave the Army Mayes' name to verify his story, they could have told him that Jones had died in combat so he would not have anybody first hand that witnessed his find.

pretty kinky!

Mike

 

[Garry]

Crow and Mike

I did find the Life magazine article using your link. (March 14, 1960) Page 110.

Crow is Correct!! The Life article identifies the soldier as Sam Mays not Pvt Robert Mayes.

I don't know why there was a difference but if you are in to conspiracies, go for it.

Sorry about that Crow,

Garry

(Edit)The link to the Life Magazine story of Robert Jones

http://books.google.com/books?id=blUEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA110&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

Quite a Story!!! Lots of detail for further research.

 

[Crow]

Hello Garry thanks but I should of provided a link to make it easier to understand where I got the information from. Its very hot in my part of world and thinking is low on the agenda.

As for conspiracy I leave that too for others. In fact one thing I am surprised with from the start that the Army even left him to begin with search for this alleged treasure?

I have no opinion either way on the veracity of the story. However like all treasure legends it is interesting to say the least.

It may be interesting to research the other people involved like Robert Jones backers. The Sargent that remembered him etc... .

Looking into Jones Life I many of found some thing from when he was younger. However in fairness I need further investigation to confirm if he was right person. As there is a discrepancy in age. However some times in old records ages are not always accuarte either. So I still want to find more collaborating evidence.

Crow

 

[Crow]

I posting this tentatively as I will state at this stage this many or may not be the right record of Robert Jones? The following prison record of Robert Jones doing two years for burglary and grand larceny. As you can see for yourself below.



The only problem I have is a 2 year age discrepancy. However that said I have viewed many records over the years of the same people with several conflicting ages.

The following document below is Robert Jones 1941 draft card.



You can see it states he was born in 1904. He was the only African American listed in 8.3 million records of service men and women with that name and around the age based on the information stated in Life magazine article.


Perhaps it might be on interest to find out more about his backers and the Sargent who remembered him? This might help demystify some claims and confirm others.

Crow