Metaldetecting is officially dead in Sweden

[Eu_citzen]

I liked Sweden until now.

Hmmm still like Swedish women though. :P

*yawn* Wait 'till you meet Norwegian ladies!

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

.....You have probably heard of or read the Treasure Hunters Code of Ethics. The biggest item is to always get permission. ....

A.T.W.: I don't know what version you're reading. But I believe if you read it again, you will see that it says permission of PRIVATE PROPERTY. And when the code speaks to public land, it says "Know and Obey all laws". Not "get permission" or go ask "can I ?"

A person can fulfill the "know and obey all laws" by looking it up for themselves. What is not law-abiding about that ? How much more "law-abiding" can a person be other than to look up the laws for himself ? I don't get it.

.... We are supposed to ask if a permit is required....

A.T.W: If there is a "permit" offered by your city or county or state's parks, then that would be listed there, somewhere, in the rules and laws. All permits (dog licenses, permits to have garage sale, permit to dock your boat, parade permits, building/remodel permits, etc....) and all licences the city offers , will all be listed somewhere.

If you REALLY REALLY have to talk to someone, just call or go in and ask: "Where can I find a listing of all muni codes, laws, and rules. And rules pertinent to park use. " and "a list of permits and licenses required by the city to do any business" (to reserve the group event area of a park, to hold a parade, to block the street for a utility line installation, etc... All of these things are "on the books somewhere". Why can't someone just look it up for themselves , rather than risk swatting hornet's nests ?

I heard of someone going in and asking "Do I need a permit to detect the park?" (essentially following your advice). And instead of getting a straight answer yes or no, it went off on a rabbit trail: The person might just say "we don't allow md'ing" or "you can't dig" or some such nonsense safe answer. So your question about "permits" just became the gateway for them to have images of geeks with shovels.

....One of the rules that you better not get caught violating addresses digging on any designated sports field. Baseball fields have backstops, football fields have uprites, and Soccer fields have nets.....

And I think someone there in NYC dreamed up "not within 20 ft. of any tree", if I recall. Right ? Who dreams up that stuff ? I haven't seen you answer my question yet of how the genesis for all-such-stuff came about in the first place in NYC. Although someone's going to quickly give the pat answer "holes", I am wondering if persons waltzing in all-the-time (as you advocate) decades ago, could have been the genesis of how someone eventually comes along to invent rules to address these FAQ's.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... I joined the Federation of Metal Detector & Archeological Club, ....

So too was our club there at the beginning of the FMDAC . One of the earlier joiners of that orginization. And I distinctly remember, as a young man in my mid 20s, how at each meeting, the FMDAC newsletter would be read aloud. And, of course, each issue was packed full of scary stories from far away places. No doubt to beat the drums of solidarity, show you their hard-work, generate support, etc.... It was as if each issue sounded like "coming to a place near you !"

And while the effort was noble, and ... sure... we all want to know what's going on in the md'ing world elsewhere. Yet I saw FIRST HAND an interesting psychology develop: Prior to the FMDAC and related scary stories circulated via their material, most of us simply had NO IDEA. It never OCCURRED to any of us that a "beach might be off-limits" or that a "park might have a rule" or that any areas had "permits", or that anyone had been legally hassled for (gasp) md'ing.

And as you looked around the room while the "scary stories were being read", everyone's eyes were as big as silver dollars. After all: No one wants these horrors to befall them. And no one wants to "get arrested". So we ramped up our club donations, etc... And then a curious thing started happening: Some people, taking all these stories to heart, would start showing up in city halls "just to make sure" (after all, you wouldn't want to "get arrested" like in the story, right ?) And then we started hearing about "no's" that had come forth in our area, at places that, quite frankly, were never a problem before. So a few of us old-timers are left scratching our heads thinking "since when ??"

Do you see how it can become self-fulfilling ? I mean, think of it: The very notion of even thinking you need to ask, or inquire of permits, simply implies something is wrong or evil about your activity, that you felt you needed to ask. Because NO ONE asks to do harmless benign innocuous things. Right ? (fly frisbee, skip stones on the pond, etc...) This implied premise is not lost, subconsciously , on the person you're asking. And can often direct their answer (they search their craw for anything that might apply, like disturbing earthworms, or whatever) .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... To be honest Tom, I dont see you bringing anything attractive to the table.

The end result we ALL want (the thing that is "attractive") is to : Keep as many places open, and off busy-body's radars as something they must address and decide on. The more places that stay open to us, the better off our hobby is. Right ? And I consider that pretty durned attractive

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... and the government claims that ALL artifacts belong to the Crown...

Really ? In CANADA ? Last I checked, there was no shortage of md'rs in Canada. Ok, I'll bite: You turn in all your artifacts to the govt. Right ?

 

[ecmjamsit]

As soon as there is a war, they will want volunteers with metal detecting experience. To clear up mines you need experience, but nobody will have it. And people will die. Give my regards to your king.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Well, that sucks! I really hope that there's something that could be done for the sake of fellow detectorists in Sweden!

Tom, we don't turn in artifacts, we are caretakers of the items but the Crown owns them.
Here's a story of a Native man who wants to sell an artifact (That was made by Native ancestors) that he found on his Reserve......

Manitoban finds 7,000-year-old spearhead near Sagkeeng First Nation - Manitoba - CBC News

Although it varies provincially, here's the law for Manitoba (read part IV)

Manitoba Laws

And no, the law didn't come about from detectorists asking bureaucrats for permission.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....And no, the law didn't come about from detectorists asking bureaucrats for permission

Ok. Re.: The knowledge that md'ing might create a situation where (gasp) someone possesed an item that belong "to the crown". How then did it come to their attention ?

we are caretakers of the items but the Crown owns them.
...

The crown owns them ? Ok. But then why aren't you rushing to check with their archies as to whether you can continue to hold them (or sell them on ebay, etc...) ?

Well, that sucks! I really hope that there's something that could be done for the sake of fellow detectorists in Sweden....

Yes. There is. The less attention, the better. For those md'rs in Sweden.

 

[against the wind]

Tom in Cal,, your opinion and assumptions, as well as interpretations and conclusions are just that, YOURS!
I will no longer engage you on this subject. I'll allow you the quasi-victory and continue to agree to disagree.
I should know better than to try to educate you through facts and actual experience.
You my friend are right up there with the other well known Californians that obstruct and twist the intent of law.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Actually Tom, contrary to your fixated point of view, the Heritage law did not come about due to metal detecting.
People were going around digging up mounds with shovels and conducting their own archaeological digs where they pleased.
Detecting was fairly new and the majority of hunters stuck to parks and beaches like they still do today.

Why would I run down and hand in my finds? Does the law say I must?
There's no problem selling things that are a century old, give or take a decade or two.

Finally, did you read that metal detecting is NOT ALLOWED in Sweden without a permit? Your advice is to break the law?
I'm done here too. I'm sorry for adding things to this thread that does not pertain to Sweden.

Again, my condolences for the state of affairs over there. I couldn't afford $85 USD per permit, especially when I have hundreds of permissions!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...the Heritage law did not come about due to metal detecting.....

Correct. Not all laws restricting md'rs came about by md'rs making themselves targets.

....

Why would I run down and hand in my finds? ....

Because I thought you said, in a prior post, that the govt. there claims and owns all artifacts ?

.....Finally, did you read that metal detecting is NOT ALLOWED in Sweden without a permit?...

Yes. And granting that this is true (and that there's not loopholes), I'm just speculating on the reasons it could have come into play there. NOT THAT CHANGES SOMETHING ALREADY IN EFFECT, I agree.

..... Your advice is to break the law? ....

If I were there, I would look into it more and find loopholes. They've got to exist. For example, I once had a detector for sale on ebay. The winning bidder was from a certain country in Europe (I won't say which one, for fear of it leading to a rabbit trail). I was forced to honor this highest bid, because I had not specified USA only. And the buyer pre-paid for over-seas shipping, so ... I shipped.

But during the conversation of working out the sale & such: My curiosity got the better of me. Because his country was one of the countries that, if a certain compendium that floats around was-to-be-believed: Had very dire warnings, restrictions, etc ... (if not seemingly outright forbidden). So I linked this guy to the link and asked "Just curious how you guys can detect, in light of this ??"

He pointed out all the loopholes in it. So for example, as dire as it sounds, yet it only applies to public land (at least in their understanding ). Not farmers lands with permission. Or that, quite frankly ... when they're md'ing, they're so far back in the woods that there's no one within miles of them.

But if someone just did a casual cursory reading of this countries laws, they would NOT have come away with anything less than dire fears.

This may not be the case for Sweden. For all I know it's for every speck of land, and archies roam about to bust your chops. Perhaps so.

 

[4dd3]

Paul Hounam recently started a peititon about this - which is going strong! https://www.change.org/p/bring-fair...yArXNpuQCLWmyh-HyBl96Gwheev-TvsYKaKMysbR4WUOQ

 

[Tom_in_CA]

wow, this is an old thread. Loved this quote from the link:

" ... Home owners cannot even metal detect legally in their own gardens, with risk of a prison sentence if they do...."

Ok, so here's the scenario: A person looses their wedding ring in their own garden/yard. If they use a metal detector to find it, they "risk a prison sentence" . Right ?

Ok, a few questions to that :

a) Is there any govt. people, who lurk hiding behind trees and bushes there ? Monitoring every yard, waiting to see if every/any resident of Sweden (gasp) employs a detector in their own garden ?

b) Since this is an all-fired imminent occurrence, I'm sure they have plenty of examples of persons who have faced such consequences. Ie.: Gone to jail for md'ing in their own front yard. Right ?

Me thinks this is a bit like dog-walkers asking "can I leave my dogs poop in the park, because I don't feel like picking it up? " And you can find someone to "read you the riot act" with various laws about pollution, littering, environmental issues, etc.... And then you can sit around and lament your lack of freedoms. Because ... most certainly .... everyone cares about the dog's poop. Right ?

Or to ask an animal rights wacko advocate about rodeo or your pet bunny. They would screech about laws on-the-books about animal cruelty, and about how your car can be confiscated, etc... But seriously: Did anyone except a few wackos care less ?? OF COURSE NOT.

But md'rs seem to search their entire country, scouring for a singular "no". Then sit around and lament their lack of freedoms. When, it turns out, it was only them "swatting hornet's nests", in the first place

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Paul Hounam recently started a peititon about this - which is going strong! https://www.change.org/p/bring-fair...yArXNpuQCLWmyh-HyBl96Gwheev-TvsYKaKMysbR4WUOQ

What happens when the petition is reached? I explained all those months ago, you have to fight legally if you want the right to metal detect. I hope your country is prepared to do that.

 

[pulltabfelix]

Caution, Caution, Caution!

It is way to late for Sweden. that is what happens when you vote for progressive candidates and government. Progressive definition is 1.
happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step or a liberal or leftest government.

So slowly but surly I imagine they chipped away at Sweden's gun laws to now you can only carry a gun for exactly two reasons. Hunting or at a gun range. Otherwise you are breaking a national law. So I doubt they will be any revolution in Sweden.

Watch the steady march of progressives in the good old USA. Eventually we will have to fill out forms and wait, wait, and wait even more to learn we have have had our request denied. We still have our guns, but the progressives are fighting tooth and nail to get our guns for the precise reason then we cannot have a revolution.

England is almost as bad as Sweden. You have to turn over most of your decent finds to the Finds Liaison Officer in your area. The FLO's starting annual salary is 15,882 English pounds or $20,923.26 US Dollars. Wow, I would love that job $1,743 per month for just sitting on my ass doing nothing waiting for some poor metal detectorist to chase me down with his finds. Of course in my report he would have to tell me exactly where he found the treasure and even give it to me. Hmmm, I would be night hawking that area ASAP and of course not reporting my finds since I am an offical FLO.

Enjoy our hobby while we can my friends. the golden days for our hobby were in the 1970's.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... you have to fight legally if you want the right to metal detect. ....

Sure. Or simply not make yourself a target of their cross-hairs .... IN THE FIRST PLACE.

...... . the golden days for our hobby was in the 1970's.

Yup. I was there md'ing (as a pimple faced teenager) in that era. And .... It never *occurred * to us that anything was amiss. We simply went out to forests, parks, beaches, school yards, etc... Silly us. But then, as time went on, md'rs (bless their little hearts) thought (perhaps reading "scary stories" from far away places), thought it was their duty to go get permissions, and inquire about possible licenses, permits, permissions, etc...

And guess what ? They got what they wanted

 

[4dd3]

A man was reported to the police for detecting his lawn without permit last year. He found an old silver coin and reported it but was REPORTED and is facing trial anyways. https://www.expressen.se/sport/friidrott/friidrottsprofilen-riskerar-fangelse-for-sin-hobby/

 

[haxor]

The politicians are only afraid you will dig up their buried skeletons
The history argument is utter bullocks. So its better to keep history buried, hidden, and unknown? What went on in Sweden's past

 

[Tom_in_CA]

A man was reported to the police for detecting his lawn without permit last year. He found an old silver coin and reported it but was REPORTED and is facing trial anyways. https://www.expressen.se/sport/friidrott/friidrottsprofilen-riskerar-fangelse-for-sin-hobby/

4dd3, whenever this "arrests" and "jail" and "fines" issue comes up: As you have seen , I often prod the notion. And suggest to the skittish types that they are "over-thinking" it. And to illustrate the point, I suggest that they probably can not come up with an example. Save for some moron who was being obnoxious, or someone who couldn't take a warning. Or someone who was night-sneaking an obvious historic sensitive monument. Or someone who, with an ounce of sense and a bit of googling "could have known better".

And whenever I throw out the challenge of "got a link ?", I am ALWAYS PAINFULLY AWARE that , yes , someone can eventually find an example. Ie.: Someone who got "roughed up" and "vehicle and detector confiscated", etc... And for what ? Finding a coin on/in his own front yard ? Having a detector in the trunk of his vehicle ? Detecting a sandbox w/o a "permit", etc....

And sure enough, once in awhile, someone "rises to the occasion" and comes up with a doozie example. Of someone being "roughed up" for (gasp) detecting in a certain park, or beach, or certain country, etc... Someone "having the book thrown at him". And then I suppose the takeaway conclusion, that we are all supposed to draw from the link, is that we all need to grovel, wherever we go, from now-on-out. Right ? That everyone hates md'ing, and it "might be illegal" everywhere. Thus we should all grovel. Right ?

Here's what I have to say about the few "scary links" that do-indeed circulate: You can ALWAYS find flukes in life. I can probably find a "link" of someone who got pulled over, roughed up, ticketed, fined, jailed, etc.....by an over-zealous cop, for nothing but a tail-light out. But you would probably see that as a fluke, and not the "norm", right ? In fact, I have a jpg pix of an article I clipped out of a newspaper, of a guy who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving. The cop called it "distracted driving". Ok, so .... are you going to not sip that soda, or eat that burger, the next time you drive ? OF COURSE NOT . Why ? Because you recognize those type things, for exactly what they are: Flukes.

Sure, don't throw caution to the wind. But .... seriously now..... you have to admit: There's probably more to your cute link, that simply "someone detecting his own front yard". Eg.: He goes and makes a stink about it by "reporting it", etc.....

 

[pulltabfelix]

ah,,, they have a King? Well that explains a lot so does the UK. for some reason people being kept down economically from bad government decisions decade after decade can feel good about their queen or king who have it pretty much made and can raise idiot princes like jolly prince charles who is alot like our prince from TN al gore. (sorry for the run on sentence). It is funny but sad that these spawns from the elite think they know better and are always telling the rest of us what we should do, like the global warming hoax.