✅ SOLVED Moccasin Last

[rls2040]

When I first joined this site I happened to see a post about a Moccasin Last, didn't have a clue what one was.Reading a book this morning about stone artifacts and dang if it didn't have a short paragraph about them,seem about half or more people think they are natural and the rest think they were used to make moccasins. Well I found what looks like a baby shoe Moccasin Last,lol, I picked this thing up only because it looked like a foot....Carl

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[rock]

No offense but I think that would of made a ugly shoe.

 

[GatorBoy]

Do you really think they had stones for every shoe size for every person in the village and kept making new ones as the children grew up there would be moccasin lasts all over the place.

 

[GatorBoy]

A piece of wood makes much more sense

 

[monsterrack]

That is one artifact that would be hard to believe in JMO. I have made moccasin before the way trappers made them and I think the trappers were taught by the Indians and there is written accounts of how trappers did things. Not making fun of your find but I believe it just a natural thing that happens a lot.

 

[rls2040]

That was about as tongue and cheek as I can be,I never believed there was such a thing and I have only known what they might be from a book this morning! It does look like a foot or rather a high top state of the art Air Jordan ,lol..Can't believe everything you read but the author said it was highly probable it was a natural rook that looks like a foot.Just wanted to see what the site folks comments would be...Best Wishes,Carl

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[Buckleberry]

All you would need would be the person's foot that was going to be wearing them...why would NAs practice industrial mass reproduction technology.

 

[quito]

This* Genuine Handsewn Moccasin Construction | Uniquely American Shoes * is a fine company that still makes moccasins sewn on a last. He claims they have been made this way for hundreds of years. Maybe we can convince him there was no such thing.

 

[GatorBoy]

He's using a shoe makers tool
It's definitely not made from stone where's the comparison here?
I'd love to see one single credibly documented artifact labeled "moccasin last"

 

[quito]

gatorboy "He's using a shoe makers tool"

We he is making footwear. I'd venture to say that shoes, boots, moccasins, were likely made in similar fashion at times over the centuries.

"It's definitely not made from stone where's the comparison here?"

Why would you expect one in use in this day and age to be made of stone?

Not trying to compare anything gator boy, just showing that lasts exist, are still in use today in moccasin making, and have been in use for hundreds of years. Whether one were made of stone, wood, or steel, couldn't it still perform the same function?

And, who's to say they didn't make them out of wood? Wood doesn't last like stone.


"I'd love to see one single credibly documented artifact labeled "moccasin last"

Me Too! .........I can find them listed in the glossary of artifacts in an archeological document from a university in Utah though. Would that count?

 

[GatorBoy]

This is an artifact forum... The post was about a stone artifact supposedly called a "moccasin last"
I've never seen one and doubt you could find one anywhere you look.

 

[GatorBoy]

Saying something was done for hundreds of years could still just mean they got it from Europeans.
And in the way I view things would make one more of an antique or relic than an artifact... Especially when referring to stone.

 

[quito]

Umm, the thread is just titled "moccasin last", and it was you that brought wood into the thread? Are you saying I was/am off topic?

You know, when you edit your posts so darn fast and often, it makes answering your questions or replying to your comments difficult. If what you originally post doesn't get copied and pasted right away, nobody (but the mods) know what you initially said.

 

[GatorBoy]

Umm, the thread is just titled "moccasin last", and it was you that brought wood into the thread? Are you saying I was/am off topic?

You know, when you edit your posts so darn fast and often, it makes answering your questions or replying to your comments difficult. If what you originally post doesn't get copied and pasted right away, nobody (but the mods) know what you initially said.

I'm not going to start another ridiculous pissing match with you the only editing I did to my post was spelling

 

[GatorBoy]

It's an artifact forum guy

 

[quito]

It's an artifact forum guy

I know. Isn't that what we had been discussing until you chimed in here? You say these the artifact types in question don't exist, and I'm saying they might. Unfortunately we will probably never know for certain.

Do you expect everyone to follow YOUR idea of whats an antique and whats an artifact now?

Why is it, I answer your questions, and you never answer mine?

 

[releventchair]

Lasts may have been used. I doubt o.p. pic is of such a last.
I have sewn centerseam,woodland type. A last for them would be pointed much more. Any way,discussion by shoe makers looked interesting. O f special note is one mentioning what a moccasin last would require for shape, (convex haul),regardless of toe style what he says about ankle makes good sense as if there is a loose area on traditional mocs he knows right where it is .l.o.l.. A mention of an Indian in recent times,(probably for tourist trade) using a last. My personal dislike for the idea of course has no effect on the past but besides making it difficult to handle work,a needle hitting hard last could be detrimental. Depending on leather used,wetting them and wearing them till dry is the way to fit them best in my opinion, with original outline of foot plus needed additional amounts to mark leather little stretch would occur but fit would be enhanced.

Custom Cowboy Boots & Shoes Discussion Board: Moccasin Lasts

 

[GatorBoy]

if we're going to be talking traditional this would likely have been the type of tool used.
Even green I can't imagine pushing it into material wrapped tightly around a rock.














Oh and by the way I only answer questions that seems to be going somewhere

 

[releventchair]

What is used to back leather when pushing an awl through to make evenly spaced holes,(a diamond shape takes a stretch a little better than round but both resist tearing) before lacing with a cared for due to labor of its construction as in above example needle? There may be other methods but wood works for me and still allows the old rule,the cutting tool must be harder than whats being cut. An overly tight stitched seam can be pounded to loosen but an overly hard backing tool for that may damage material sewn with. In comparing mocs,even when both feet are traced around to pattern they are quite similar and till they shape after break in can be confused as to left and right. Plains hard soles may be much more distinguished from each other in sole shape.
The problem with a single last in making footwear is the not uncommon size difference in even an individuals feet making traced footwear custom and comfy.This leaves the purpose of a last as a work holding device. That requires a last holder,we see it on the more modern version reaching from floor to last ,or bench to last. Other wise last is floating inside component(s). Last size for assembly can now be as simple as large medium small ect.
For sale or trade to others would allow ease of uniform shape on a last but fit will become generic . Wetting and wearing dry a hope but again,depends on leather type, expecting more than an approximate eighth size gain kind of pardon the pun ,stretching it.. And double sole another style that may challenge even an undersized last when sewing welts. Real leather soled mocs not for use on hard floors, they become dangerously slippery when bottoms thin then harden, holes soon to follow. Only hope is sandpapering the bottoms and not wearing them on hard surfaces again. When a cobbler uses a last ,whats his advantage in its employ beyond nailing or wood pegging a sole on? It is in assembling pieces that stay as built. Unlike turning some style mocs rightside out when finished.

 

[unclemac]

great grandma used was born smack dab in the middle of Alaska on the Yukon River sometime in the spring, year unknown....when I would watch her make moccasins....she would use your foot.....not some rock.