The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

[Oroblanco]

Has there ever been a family relationship confirmed for the Peraltas of Northern Mexico, who allegedly owned the mines in the Salt River vicinity, and Pedro Peralta, who founded Santa Fe, NM, in 1608?

Not that I know of, the Peraltas of Arizona were involved in gold mining but in the Bradshaws, not the Superstitions. The only documentation to support any Peralta presence in the Supers was that newspaper clip, and that was "near" the Supers not in them specifically.
Oroblanco

 

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[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"I see that others have already addressed the Vulture ore comparison, Dr Glover specifically. Other mines have also been proposed as the true source including the Bulldog and Mammoth, but the ores do not match. The ore has been the subject of some interesting debates on the LDGM forum, which resulted in some convincing chaff being added to the mix of information by some individuals, apparently with the intention of getting Dutch hunters to search for the wrong kind of ore and wrong kind of ore deposit. I will return to the ore subject in a bit, as well as the other point about the mine not being located in the Superstitions."

As I understand it, Ron Feldman and Bob Schoose purchased the Mammoth some time ago. Randy told me that a reporter interviewed him and told him that Ron had said they had found a new vein in the Mammoth, and it looked to him like LDM ore, and he believed it was Waltz's mine. I have my own theory about this, but it's only a theory.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Loke]

*chuckles*
Somewhere/Sometime on TN - somebody asked what would be the best course of action if one should be so lucky as to find 'unaccessible gold'.
The main answer:
"Buy an old, worked-out mine and pretend you have found a new vein."

I'm not accusing ... just saying ...

 

[Springfield]

*chuckles*
Somewhere/Sometime on TN - somebody asked what would be the best course of action if one should be so lucky as to find 'unaccessible gold'.
The main answer:
"Buy an old, worked-out mine and pretend you have found a new vein."

I'm not accusing ... just saying ...

It's a strategy that has been used before. I wonder what the permitting requirements are nowadays in order to reach the level of a 'legitimate operation'?

 

[cactusjumper]

Per,

Hope all is well with you and the family. Are you going to make this year's Rendezvous?

Looks like your memory is holding up......better than mine. Another way to move such ore, would be to have a good friend who runs a big mining operation, and run it through him. I imagine there would be a few ways to make that work.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM,

The Feldmans were involved in the OFFICIAL DIG several years ago. Maybe they were also involved in cleaning out that pit that Joe likes to write about? Maybe? Joe? Any words of wisdom?

As Loke said, what better way to legitimize any illgotten ore than to buy an old worked out mine and claim to find a new vein at depth!

Not accusing. Just saying. As well.

hhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Mike

 

[Blindbowman]

ya i just found a new vane in my old mine the same way ...lol

now where did see leave that old mine ...

but what if the gold ore is so rich it gives the plot away ...? what if it matches the LDM ore . .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

once processed into a bar or extremely hi-grade concentrate with the addition of a bit more silver or lead etc., it is normally unrealistic to id it. Why would it be necessary? Crew gets paid, 'state and uncle Sammy gets theirs, so who would question it, or why?

As for working in a prohibited zone, no way, they are prob surveying the area 24/7/365 via sat. and would notice any unusual prohibited traffic or activity.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

once processed into a bar or extremely hi-grade concentrate with the addition of a bit more silver or lead etc., it is normally unrealistic to id it. Why would it be necessary? Crew gets paid, 'state and uncle Sammy gets theirs, so who would question it, or why?

As for working in a prohibited zone, no way, they are prob surveying the area 24/7/365 via sat. and would notice any unusual prohibited traffic or activity.

Don Jose de La Mancha

why?

 

[Loke]

Well - that 'new vein' set off alarm bells everywhere in my head.
If the LDM is as rich as is indicated - and appearantly somewhat inaccessible - what's to stop anyone from doing the same as Joe's pitmine - or there may be caches from that operation which has not been transported out yet - or someone has waited an appropriate time before making a move.
Besides, I doubt very much that infrared surveillance is in effect, so night-time 'operations' might well be possible.

Still just saying ...

 

[Blindbowman]

good luck

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

You also should consider having a permit to pack tourist's in by horseback....is a pretty good cover! who's gonna suspect an outfit like that as they come and go on a daily basis?

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

As I understand it, Ron Feldman and Bob Schoose purchased the Mammoth some time ago. Randy told me that a reporter interviewed him and told him that Ron had said they had found a new vein in the Mammoth, and it looked to him like LDM ore, and he believed it was Waltz's mine. I have my own theory about this, but it's only a theory.

A new, separate vein, as in a blind lead? What about evidence of earlier mining having been done on it? Any info on that part of the equation? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

its not the Lost Dutchman Mine

when you see the LDM you will never forget it as long as you live .. with the history of the mine ,sorry thats not long ,....lol

 

[Cubfan64]

Having read the past few days of posts here, I can't help but feel uncomfortable with the suggestions that someone specific may be/have been involved in doing something illegal in the SWA. It's one thing to talk about things in private, but it's another when it becomes public no a forum like this.

I have no idea how slander or defamation of character laws work in the "internet age" online, but I think if nothing else it's disrespectful to implicate someone publicly like this by name.

Just my $0.02

 

[Oroblanco]

Cubfan wrote

Having read the past few days of posts here, I can't help but feel uncomfortable with the suggestions that someone specific may be/have been involved in doing something illegal in the SWA. It's one thing to talk about things in private, but it's another when it becomes public no a forum like this.

I have no idea how slander or defamation of character laws work in the "internet age" online, but I think if nothing else it's disrespectful to implicate someone publicly like this by name.

Just my $0.02

I am not sure what statements you are thinking of here Paul? It is fairly common knowledge that Ron and Bob own the Mammoth, and real estate ownership is public record, and it is not located inside the boundaries of the Superstitions Wilderness Area so finding a new vein in the mine would not be an illegal activity right? Then too if an illegal activity occurred enough years ago that it has been longer than the statute of limitations, it is not prosecutable at this point. Slander and libel have always been tricky, and a point that has been used as a successful defense against such charges in past has been that the person making the slanderous-libel statements believed it to be true, then it is not within the legal definition of those terms. To commit slander and libel is to spread false and damaging information, that is known to be false to the person spreading the info. Cactusjumper's post there reads as gossip, but if Joe believes it to be true then it would fail the slander definition, and I can't see where it is accusing any illegal activity? Maybe I am just confused today. If you could point out the statement(s) you are referring to I would appreciate it.

I am no attorney so don't 'take that to the bank' of course. I have never heard of any successful legal defense based on "Roy Decker told me this was OK!".
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Oro de Tayopa posted -->I have never heard of any successful legal defense based on "Roy Decker told me this was OK!".
**************
Is this true Beth?


Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Cubfan wrote

Having read the past few days of posts here, I can't help but feel uncomfortable with the suggestions that someone specific may be/have been involved in doing something illegal in the SWA. It's one thing to talk about things in private, but it's another when it becomes public no a forum like this.

I have no idea how slander or defamation of character laws work in the "internet age" online, but I think if nothing else it's disrespectful to implicate someone publicly like this by name.

Just my $0.02

I am not sure what statements you are thinking of here Paul? It is fairly common knowledge that Ron and Bob own the Mammoth, and real estate ownership is public record, and it is not located inside the boundaries of the Superstitions Wilderness Area so finding a new vein in the mine would not be an illegal activity right? Then too if an illegal activity occurred enough years ago that it has been longer than the statute of limitations, it is not prosecutable at this point. Slander and libel have always been tricky, and a point that has been used as a successful defense against such charges in past has been that the person making the slanderous-libel statements believed it to be true, then it is not within the legal definition of those terms. To commit slander and libel is to spread false and damaging information, that is known to be false to the person spreading the info. Cactusjumper's post there reads as gossip, but if Joe believes it to be true then it would fail the slander definition, and I can't see where it is accusing any illegal activity? Maybe I am just confused today. If you could point out the statement(s) you are referring to I would appreciate it.

I am no attorney so don't 'take that to the bank' of course. I have never heard of any successful legal defense based on "Roy Decker told me this was OK!".
Oroblanco

Roy,

The LDM has always had more than its share of rumors floating around. The pit mine originally surfaced when pictures of the mine were shown at the first Rendezvous. I had them on my laptop, and the man who took the pictures decided to have me show them to those in attendance. Since then, they have been shown at a number of other Rendezvous' and he gave me permission to post them on the LDM Forum.

The names of those believed to have been involved have been mentioned many times. There is no smoking gun, that I know of, tying those names to the work done on the mine. It all remains rumor. What is not a rumor is that the mine was worked around 1997-1999. Some of the rumors are a result of comments made by the "perp's". If someone believes they have found the LDM, it would be very difficult for them to not want to crow about it.

In truth, I believe the true story is well know among local Dutch Hunters. I have never posted, on any forum, who I believe the people who worked the mine were.

Take care,

Joe

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Jose,

As far as I know, its true.

Bentheredonethat,

I'm not sure you could get another licensed packer - right now its a one-man show on who is licensed to do packing into the Supes, though, if there was some other entity licensed to do it, maybe the prices could come back down a little

However, any kind of mining - done outside the SWA, is really of no concern to those authorities who might not want someone digging holes in the Supers.

And, while our surveillance equipment may be good, folks are STILL finding things they didn't know was there, up the Superstition Wilderness - so, if one was to be poking in the Supes, there would definitely be a possibility that nobody could see them. (I am referring to the "camp" that was found last year that was at least a few years old).

However - like I said - the mentioned areas (and people) are outside the SWA, so, its a moot point.

Beth

 

[Blindbowman]

Having read the past few days of posts here, I can't help but feel uncomfortable with the suggestions that someone specific may be/have been involved in doing something illegal in the SWA. It's one thing to talk about things in private, but it's another when it becomes public no a forum like this.

I have no idea how slander or defamation of character laws work in the "internet age" online, but I think if nothing else it's disrespectful to implicate someone publicly like this by name.

Just my $0.02

i fully agree with you CUB .. with out evidence this should not be posted here at the web site .. and if its a matter of illegal activities .. we never got past jesse...if his death is not questionable i dont know who's is ... some states no longer have slander laws .. but they could be brakeing other laws and site rules ..