Found Something Really Cool!

[old digger]

Found this eroding out of an arroyo washout due to all the rain we are getting. At first I just thought that it was a regular vertebra but after cleaning it off I could not believe what I was seeing. I told my wife that I think that we have something pretty special, don't you think. After doing a little research I am pretty sure it's a ''Stott's Point. From what I gather Stott's point are associated with the buffalo hunters from the Alberta Canada area down into Montana and the Dakota's.

 

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[Lanny in AB]

Sweet find! Nicely done.

That's a rare find indeed, and you should be very proud.

There will always be people that will question anything and everything, not saying that's good or bad, just saying . . .

All the best,

Lanny

 

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[Philvis]

You should try and get with a local university that has an archaeology lab. Would be very cool if they could run a blood residue test on it, and I'm sure they'd love to just see it as well.

 

[old digger]

Thanks Lanny!

 

[monsterrack]

My Lord Dennis what a find and it couldn't have happened to a better person. You can think of the shot in a lot of ways, was it a spear from a horse or was it the final blow while the animal was laying on the ground to finish it off. I would stabilize the bone with some Buvtar mixed with 100% acetone. One thing folks need to remember why there's no cracks is that a young animal would have softer bone than an adult. Congratulations on such a superb find and it really needs 2 banners.

 

[old digger]

Thanks A Lot Eddie!

 

[old digger]

Just to clarify, the property that I found this item is private property. The owner is quite strict as to who is allowed on the 13,000 acre property. So, I don't think there is any possibility of such ''salting''.

 

[monsterrack]

I'll give you a challenge, you take a bone and a stone point and make such a tight fit with no gaps. You can't do it, I know because I have made many of such desktop display fakes for people, not to try an fool someone but just for display. You will always have to use a filler around the point to fill in the cracks. I'll post some photos I made of one for Larson and you can see the difference.

 

[MAMucker]

Yikes

 

[MAMucker]

Thank you for the banner vote, I really did not expect it. It is just the enjoyment of finding something from many years ago. You never know what you'll find. We only found some chips other than the vertebra.

Was it the only vertebrae that fell out? The only one?

 

[dts52]

Awesome find. Definitely a Banner vote from me.
HH
dts

 

[old digger]

I'm not saying it's easy to fake, but I'm sure it can be done. Explain how there are so many vertebrate with points sticking in them that are all identical? And why just vertebrate being found? Can the similarities found all over the internet not be seen? If it is real, y'all are right, a heck of a find for sure, but it just has the look of so many of the repros out there.

I can understand your inquiry and assure you that it seems a coincidence that there are such examples of points lodged in the neck vertebra. As an avid hunter I have shot several deer in the neck and they immediately dropped to the ground. I am sure that the prehistoric hunter was aware of placing an appropriate shot to down an animal so that he would have a quick recovery of the animal. I am sure this may explain the frequency of artifacts found in this way.

 

[old digger]

Was it the only vertebrae that fell out? The only one?

Yes it was. I am sure that it had washed down from a kill site. I have found several buffalo skulls (without the lower mandibles) in the same manner. I assume that you would have a better chance of finding a projectile point in a kill site like a buffalo enpoundment or jump.

 

[monsterrack]

The first two photos are of a reproduction I made for Larson 1951 If you will look at the area where the point meets the bone you will see what is to look like dirt, but it just an epoxy filler with dirt to cover the gap between bone and point. This next photo is one off the net and you can see the same affect of dirt right around the point only, notice no other dirt anywhere else, to me it is a reproduction. Now if you will look close to the item that this post is about there is no dirt filler or no gap. If you blow the photo up of the point inside of the bone you can see that the tip of the point has a impact fracture on it. The only way a person could get that perfect fit of point and bone would to be take a 3D photo of the point ,then make a cross section photo of that point and feed it into some type of computer that was hooked to a cutting device. No one is going to go to that much trouble to fake a item such has this because there are to many areas that a mistake could be seen. I for one just don't believe it could be done with such a precise fit and for record there have been points found in leg bone ,skulls, hip bone but they are the larger bones of any body so they will last longer. JMO

 

[charley2hats]

Seen one just like it in a antique store in Vernal Utah was not for sale. It's a deer vertabra shoot while above anamel on perch or rock cliff, very old. I asked what the not for sale price was and could not buy at any price. You should treasure it forever.

 

[DizzyDigger]

OD, I shared your pic (with full credit) on an archery site that I've
been a member of for over 20 years, and the response was superb.

If you scroll though the thread, you'll see some other examples found
by one Mr. Gene Wensel, who is somewhat a legend in the traditional
archery community (and a hellofa nice guy). Much discussion about the
point, so you may also find some additional info on your find.

https://forums2.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=485250&messages=67&forum=36

Hope the link is OK...it's a bowhunting site.

 

[Philvis]

As a former archaeologist that specialized in prehistoric Indians, if I had to give a go/no go authentication based on the 3 photos, I'd say it's authentic. The entry area is clean, and you'd never be able to duplicate that on old bone to the point of what this looks like. I've been a member of this forum for quite sometime and I don't see forgers on here and the odds of someone salting private property is pretty low. It would take a lot of work to get the results pictured, and then to haphazardly drop it off somewhere on private property...come on!

Living bone is MUCH different than that of bone that is hundreds or thousands of years old. The velocity of the point entering played a part in the point staying intact along with, again, it being living tissue, so it would have encountered a soft marrow as well as it penetrated. If an atlatl was used, that point had a lot of velocity behind it, giving it even more credence to the clean nature of the entry and the point staying intact. In my opinion it would be a fluke if this were not genuine, based on the photos and back story.

 

[19cbb]

Sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[aa battery]

Sorry, couldn't resist...

View attachment 1727246

now its boneafied

 

[catherine1]

Well I think this is the real deal naysayers, old digger has been on TN for quite a while. I don't think he is hoodwinking you with this artifact. He goes out into the field, finds artifacts, knows where to dig, and search in his area. If somebody threw a fake out there, and he found it, they must be stalking him. But I must admit it brings some members out, who have never said anything about our artifact finds before. That are interested in your find with opinions. WTG brother. I find all kinds of bones, and arrowheads, they are never stuck together. Thanks for sharing. Amazing artifact recovery.

 

[redbeardrelics]

Congratulations Old Digger on an amazing and wonderful artifact assemblage !!
What can you tell us about the point style, type, and age? The first thing I thought about when seeing your find was to wonder about the costs and procedures associated with having the bone carbon dated. Not to confirm authenticity, but rather just as a way to help date the point and site and to obtain the information. I would suspect that a small sample could be taken that would not harm the artifact, but I have no idea who could reliably perform such a test, nor the costs that might be incurred. Have you found other points/tools at that site, and is this point consistent with them?
Cheers !