Help with ID on military looking pin

[Bill_S]

Went to a local park but ended up going to an area that I had detected before but did not put much time into it and never really found anything. I ended up finding some lead and a pin. I found all the lead pretty deep. Some of the smaller ones were close to 9 inches. Found the pin in the same area. Dont know if it's more modern or something from the civil war era too. I have searched on Google but cant find anything. Any ideas. Thanks.

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I checked the symbols of every fraternal organization on my list and ...

Nothing Fits!

I'm back to thinking it's a zero!

(With zero being exactly what my hours of research have produced so far).

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I would like to take this opportunity and enter a semi-official guess as to the pin's idenity ...

?0th Regiment ~ Company C
United States Foot Artillery Insignia Pin
Circa pre-Civil War

I base my guess on an accumulation of factors which include the contributions of others, most notably TheCannonballGuy, as well as a great deal of personal research. Part of which stems from my belief the pin is American made and has a U.S. military connection. Coupled with this I am also convinced that the swords depicted on the pin are American made short swords, which were standard issue from the 1820s thru the 1850s. But not necessarily during the Civil War when close combat firearms were more of the norm.

During the course of my research I discovered that the leading U.S. manufacturer of short swords was a company by the name of "N.P. Ames" of Springfield, Massachusetts. The N.P. Ames company was established in 1791 and secured it's first contract with the U.S. government to make short swords in 1832 ... and specifically for members of the foot artillery. The majority of the Ames short swords appear to be related with the artillery.

So there you have it! Now all I need to do is prove it. And that, my friends, may be a whole lot easier said than done.

"One for all ~ all for one"

Thanks.

Sodabottlebob

[ Top ][ Examples of two N.P. Ames Short Swords ]

[ Bottom ][ U.S. Artillery Regiment 1825-1832 ][Notice the sword on the front soldier ]

 

[Patriot474]

I would like to take this opportunity and enter a semi-official guess as to the pin's idenity ...

?0th Regiment ~ Company C
United States Foot Artillery Insignia Pin
Circa pre-Civil War

I base my guess on an accumulation of factors which include the contributions of others, most notably TheCannonballGuy, as well as a great deal of personal research. Part of which stems from my belief the pin is American made and has a U.S. military connection. Coupled with this I am also convinced that the swords depicted on the pin are American made short swords, which were standard issue from the 1820s thru the 1850s. But not necessarily during the Civil War when close combat firearms were more of the norm.

During the course of my research I discovered that the leading U.S. manufacturer of short swords was a company by the name of "N.P. Ames" of Springfield, Massachusetts. The N.P. Ames company was established in 1791 and secured it's first contract with the U.S. government to make short swords in 1832 ... and specifically for members of the foot artillery. The majority of the Ames short swords appear to be related with the artillery.

So there you have it! Now all I need to do is prove it. And that, my friends, may be a whole lot easier said than done.

Thanks. "All for one and one for all!"

Sodabottlebob

[ Two Examples Of N.P. Ames Short Swords ]

I be willing to stake money the letter missing is an M.

So MO. S

Missouri Company C?

Pretty much what you said.

 

[Bill_S]

Sorry I have not replied earlier. I was busy the last couple days. Thanks for all the awesome research. You guys are the best. Here is an updated picture. This was found in Sedalia Missouri. It in fact looks like there is a letter missing from it. You can see where one is broken off.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Bill_S

Thanks a million. I'm following your post live with a few highlights ...

Possible A thru Z ~ Possible 1 thru 9

Q ...( Did they have solder/weld in the 1800s ? ) ( Or repaired at some later date? )

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks for the great new pics. Unfortunately I dont see any makers marks. The hinge does not appear to be the old T bar (tube hinge) type in pic 1..

What little I knew about hinges and clasps I forgot but here is a little illustration. Help Breezie.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Please note: The following requires more research and is not etched in stone. And also please know that I am being totally opened minded as to whether the missing digit is a letter or a number. At present I still believe it could be either one.

However ... I did a little research and discovered during the 1800s that Missouri was typically abbreviated with a capital "M" and a small "o" (Mo.) and didn't change to both being capital letters until sometime between 1943 and 1963. But I say again, this needs more research. If the pin did in fact have a missing "M," it could very well have been "MO" for Missouri. Plus, I think we all agree that we are still guessing as to when it was made. It could be from the 1900s.

Read more about it here ...

As early as October 1874, the United States Post Office recognized common abbreviations for states and territories.

Link for more details.
http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-history/state-abbreviations.htm

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Question: Does anyone know the history of "cast" vs. "stamped" pins and badges? It definitely appears cast to me! I tried doing a little research, but didn't find anything worth mentioning.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Just for the fun of it ...

You'll have to imagine your preferred letter or number

( Likely had a solid background like the O/0 )

 

[Bill_S]

Thats pretty neat there SODABOTTLEBOB....;o)

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Bill_S

Thanks.

It takes a steady hand ... plus a "laser" mouse with a piece of copy paper under it doesn't hurt either. Lol

And while I'm here, I'd just like to say the reason I post so many replies is becasuse I am intrigued by the item, plus I work at home and have the time to do the necessary research.

Speaking of time and research, I spent at least two hours researching the "Knights of Columbus," (I too suspect it may be one of their pins) but was totally unable to find anything that matched. This is not to say it isn't related to them, only that I could find nothing to support it. But what I did find related to them was about a jillion of the emblems shown below.

Plus, here's a quick link that disucsses the origin of the organization, as well as the origin of their emblem. (Just scroll down a ways to where the emblem is discussed).

SBB

Link: http://www.kofcri.org/KofC_His.asp

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here's a list of fraternal-type organizations that might apply ... (If it's an "O"). ? ?

AOC: American Order of Clansmen

DOC: Daughters of Columbia

DOC: Daughters of Confederacy

FOC: Fraternal Order of Colonials

KOC: Knights of Columbus

MOC: Military Order of the Cootie

MOC: Modern Order of Chaldean

OOC: Order of Calanthe

ROC: Russian Orthodox Catholic

Did anybody check all these? The only ones I checked are Knights of Colombus, Daughters of Confederacy and the Order of the Cootie.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Big Cy ~

Yes, I did ... every one of them. Please see my post #60

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~

Yes I did ... every one of them. Please see my post #60

SBB

Good work Bob. I also work at home a lot so I checked Knights of Colombus real good and although they use the crossed swords, I could not find a matching pin.

Im not sure of the exact date that the T bar hinge faded from use but I beieve its in the post CW era. The style also seems to match WWI military hat pins. So my wild guess would be to concentrate late 1800's-early 1900's.

Im not getting my work done and this is addicting.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

P.S. ~

Regarding the "Knights of Columbus," somewhere along the line (I don't remember where) I read something about a "kids/youth" badge (not the Boy Scout one) but I never could find a picture of one. So that might be a place to look if someone were interested in researching it. I gave up!

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I was hoping for a makers mark. I cant read those clamshells. This has the making of one of TNs best "What Is It" threads. It may go several pages and take years to solve but I think its solvable. It cant be the only pin in existance.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Big Cy ~

I'm getting my work done okay. But frankly, I don't even know where to look anymore! I've devoted at least ten hours to this, and searched every possibility I can think of, but now I'm ...

TOTALLY STUMPED !!!

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im headed back to the BigCypress Preserve to put in my 40 hours. Im thinking of taking my laptop with me to see if I can get online in the swamp LOL. Maybe I can catch a signal from the Miccosukis. Am I addicted ?

 

[savant365]

I haven't been able to come up with anything either. Bill is there any way you could get some closer pics of the emblems that are on the blades of the swords? They almost look like Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Charlie

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Bill_S

Do both of the handles have the same markings? (which appear to be KQR ) Or do you think they are just random marks with no meaning? I suspect they are pretty dang small.

Thanks.

SBB