Help with ID on military looking pin

[Bill_S]

Went to a local park but ended up going to an area that I had detected before but did not put much time into it and never really found anything. I ended up finding some lead and a pin. I found all the lead pretty deep. Some of the smaller ones were close to 9 inches. Found the pin in the same area. Dont know if it's more modern or something from the civil war era too. I have searched on Google but cant find anything. Any ideas. Thanks.

 

[Bill_S]

Any suggestions on how to clean it up better? I will try to clean it up and get some better pics.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Knights of the Golden Circle?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Is the C also brazed/soldered?

 

[allan]

Sodabottlebob, you are doing a great job, do not get discouraged yet ! I am also looking at military schools and the like. It is one of those items that just piques the interest.small and prolly not worth a whole a lot , but definately interesting. Bill maybe a quick brush with a toothbrush and water would help. I hope we can find out what it is for you but mostly for sodabottlebob, hate to see him crack lol

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The possibility exists that it may be a sweetheart pin and that is why we cant find it.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Bill_S wrote:
> Any suggestions on how to clean it up better? I will try to clean it up and get some better pics.

I've been thinking that the markings on the blades and clamshells are going to be the key remaining clues for identifying the pin, so I've been intending to suggest that cleaning would show the markings on the blades and clamshells better ...but I was waiting for you to reappear in this discussion.

I'd recommend submerging the pin in straight household ammonia for 90 seconds, then quickly remove the pin, and gently brush the marked areas with the tip of a toothbrush which has been dipped in the ammonia. Such a short time (90 seconds) isn't long enough for the ammonia to harm the relic. If you prefer, you can use a 50/50 solution of ammonia and water. Just be sure (after you've done the gentle toothbrushing) to rinse the relic thoroughly under running water, to remove all the ammonia.

If 90 seconds turns out not to be enough, you can repeat the ammonia-soaking. But because the dirt-crust on your pin looks thin, I think 90 seconds (followed immediately by toothbrushing) will be enough.

I should mention here that some relics are too corroded to use ammonia on without harming them. But your pins appears to have very little corrosion. If you're worried, use 50/50 ammonia & water.

 

[allan]

I wforgot to add that the center symbol that looks like a lollipop looks like it's the greek letter phi and the k may be kama , not sure but that is what led me to believe it may be a college fraternity of sort's.... maybe

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I haven't pulled my hair out yet. But this might do it!

Here's what I "see" on the handle. I can't tell if certain portions are connected or not. The bottom picture is what I call the "grey areas" that I'm not sure about. In fact, I'm not "sure" about any of it!

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[Bramblefind]

I wforgot to add that the center symbol that looks like a lollipop looks like it's the greek letter phi and the k may be kama , not sure but that is what led me to believe it may be a college fraternity of sort's.... maybe

I had it oriented the other way and was coming up with crazy letters. Psi Omicron Gamma? Couldn't get the lollipop/phi/Q to work that way though. So I think I'm just seeing things

Which way are the letters supposed to face on a sword hilt?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Did you notice the two long-necked, "Smiling Aliens?"
(one is upside down)

E.T.?



[ Now I have cracked! ]

 

[Bramblefind]

Ha! I saw the figures but flipped the other way they don't look as spooky! I was seeing a female profile.

 

[Bill_S]

I cleaned it up the best I could. Here are a few more pics.....

 

[allan]

the line after the lollipop could mean that it is kapa qoppa but the R is not there in the greek alphabet I searched , but there is a few other one's including a biblical greek alphabet .

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I Need Some Help!

The following Wikipedia link will assist us in providing "possibles" for various three letter combinations. For example, enter one of the following ...

AOC ~ BOC ~ COC ~ DOC ... etc.

... and it will give every imaginable option in their data base, with a link to it. But each combo has about twenty options, and requires a lot of time. Thus, my reason for requesting help. There is no organized way I can think of to assign different letters to different members. It really boils down to who has the time and happens to get lucky and find the right one. There are a total of 26 different possible three letter combinations. Plus the multiple options that come up.

Thanks, and good luck

May the best man or woman find the right one and solve this thing.

Of course, if it's a zero and not an O, then it will be a wild goose chase.



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Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aoc

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Those are good clear pics but the markings are still undecipherable and unrecognizable.

 

[ivan salis]

SPQR ? --ROMAN LETTER ON THE PLAQUE OVER CHRIST HEAD?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

~ Points to Ponder ~

The fact the swords were "cast" seperately from the letters, with the letters being welded on later, suggest to me that the pin was never intended to indicate just three specific letters. If that were the case, then why didn't they just cast the letters along with the swords and produce hundreds of them? I'm thinking the letters might have been added later because they might be someone's initials and not represenative of a specific organization. So if this is even remotely possible, then I would focus on the swords themselves and not the letters! Of course, this is just a theory and not conclusive, but definitely a point to ponder.

But on the other hand, if it was military related (regiment/company) then those designations would change from time to time, depending on the variables.

Thus ... I'm "sticking" (no pun intended) with my inital guess ...

20th Regiment ~ Company C
United States Foot Artillery Insignia Pin
pre-Civil War

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That is until someone proves the clasp is specifically dated. Then I'll change my mind again.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

SodaBottleBob, I hope this won't deflate your (very admirable) enthusiasm in the quest for the pin's correct ID ...but you've said you rely on me for this kind of information. The guess you're sticking with, that the pin is a pre-war one for the 20th US Foot Artillery Regiment, cannot be correct. Prior to the civil war, the United States Artillery consisted of only 4 regiments. A fifth one was hastily organized in 1861 after the war started.

Also, as previously mentioned, absolutely no US (or Confederate) Foot Artillery sword had a clamshell guard.

 

[ivan salis]

look at the 1840 west point cadet sword it is a t handled foot artillery short sword design -- with MA in a oval design -- other military academy's also used this basic type of pattern as well - but might have had di9fferant "letters in the oval ,

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

look at the 1840 west point cadet sword it is a t handled foot artillery short sword design -- with MA in a oval design -- other military academy's also used this basic type of pattern as well - but might have had di9fferant "letters in the oval ,

I tried to find it in your link but I couldnt follow your directions. Read reply #55.