Oak Island Treasure Revelations

[Oak Island Sage]

Oi Sage,
My true focus is on whether or not the MP story is real or not. You should know my approach and methods by now.

I do not just state its a hoax wothout evidence.
I also do not just say "no one would bury a treasure that deep so it is a hoax" although its common sense its not evidence either.

My approach assumes its true then i focus on "could they have done what they claim and how they would have done it.

Then i look for all the information i can find.. typically i start with a simple question to Google AI...can someone dig a 100ft shaft without cribbing in 1700? Adding 1700 to the question is extremely important to get a period correct response.

When google ai states No, i now have to fact check Google AI.

I research soil makeup,
I researched the bedrock on OI how it fractures, natural cavities, water ingress and sinkholes
i researched how wells were dug,
i research how vertical shafts are dug with cribbing,
i research how holes are dug without cribbing
I put time and effort into all my research before i ever post in this forum because its a tough crowd.

Like i mentioned, im only focused on proving the MP story is true or false. Today i proved it false so my research is complete.

With regards to your research. I have no interest in a new theory/story; however, i am a fact checker and clearly you have many holes in it. Holes mean its just another story nothing more and i am not talking about evidence and citations.
Im talking about a theory that can be defended when challenge. Which you cannot.

Lets take look at your last claim...
"Someone has to be first..."
Come on you don't know "they" were first?
You just came up with that angle to get the last word.

But you are correct though... there are firsts but they don't come out of thin air. They are concieved from improving or applying existing technology in a different application.

So its my opinion, you need to research the "how" would they do that and make sure the methods are period correct.

I proved the MP story is exaggerated [cribbingis an absolute must]. I know you, don't agree but what if im right. Will your theory still work or is it solely dependent on the MP story being true. You need to work through this scenario and have an answer.

You came to this forum to promote your book: however, i think you got lucky because you should now realize where the holes are in your theory and you have time to plug them before you meet with rick and marty.
-CO

Hi chalkoutline, have you also entertained the aweful possibility that you are totally wrong, you say that that you have proved it false, to who's satisfaction you and your buddies? Unlike you I except that the Money Pit was excavated in the way that the old records describe. If you read my book you would know that I (and at least one other writer of several OI books have attributed the excavations to be the work of Cornish Miners, they dug mines stretching miles underground so it's safe to assume they were well aware of the necessity to use cribbing or not.

Whether or not the method the original miners employed in the excavation of the Money Pit was the first example is actually irrelevant, the old records indicate that it was achieved by them without the need for cribbing and that is what many people are prepared to except as a fact.

You are quite correct in one point though, if I fail to convince Marty, Craig and Rick, the treasure will probably never be recovered. In that event the whole world (who need a lift in spirits after the pandemic) will sadly be denied it. My only consolation then is knowing that any of the hot shot critics and self opiniated doubter's who have nothing of real value to contribute themselves, will also loose out.

We have an old saying in England, "If the cap fits you - then wear it".
Oak Island Sage

 

[chalkoutline]

Hi chalkoutline, have you also entertained the aweful possibility that you are totally wrong, you say that that you have proved it false, to who's satisfaction you and your buddies? Unlike you I except that the Money Pit was excavated in the way that the old records describe. If you read my book you would know that I (and at least one other writer of several OI books have attributed the excavations to be the work of Cornish Miners, they dug mines stretching miles underground so it's safe to assume they were well aware of the necessity to use cribbing or not.

Whether or not the method the original miners employed in the excavation of the Money Pit was the first example is actually irrelevant, the old records indicate that it was achieved by them without the need for cribbing and that is what many people are prepared to except as a fact.

You are quite correct in one point though, if I fail to convince Marty, Craig and Rick, the treasure will probably never be recovered. In that event the whole world (who need a lift in spirits after the pandemic) will sadly be denied it. My only consolation then is knowing that any of the hot shot critics and self opiniated doubter's who have nothing of real value to contribute themselves, will also loose out.

We have an old saying in England, "If the cap fits you - then wear it".
Oak Island Sage

When i joined 10 months ago i believed the MP was real same as you but i saw things differently when i researched the Dunfield dig.

So now i agree with truthbetold, not because he told me it was "fantasy" but because he motivated me to research more and the more i researched the less i believed.

Can i still be 100% wrong? ABSOLUTELY!
The difference is...i know exactly why i changed my mind and what it takes to change it back and its not your book.

 

[Cryptid1990]

I have tried to blaze a safe trail for those people who keep an open mind to follow, and who are not slaves to public opinion, but hey if you guys want to go your way then I wish you and truthbetold good luck on your own intrepid journeys.

Oak Island Sage

I think you will find the majority of the public believe in the same pseudoarchaeology/nonsense about Oak island you do. If you search Oak Island on Amazon/Google books, why are almost none of the books from a sceptical point of view?

 

[chalkoutline]

I think you will find the majority of the public believe in the same pseudoarchaeology/nonsense about Oak island you do. If you search Oak Island on Amazon/Google books, why are almost none of the books from a sceptical point of view?

Cyptid,
I wouldn't bother trying to change OI Sage's mind because he is committed to theories in his. Just not gonna happen.

Its the same problem OI Sage will have convincing rick and marty to dig else where other than the MP.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

When i joined 10 months ago i believed the MP was real same as you but i saw things differently when i researched the Dunfield dig.

So now i agree with truthbetold, not because he told me it was "fantasy" but because he motivated me to research more and the more i researched the less i believed.

Can i still be 100% wrong? ABSOLUTELY!
The difference is...i know exactly why i changed my mind and what it takes to change it back and its not your book.

How could you know that for certain if you haven't bought it or read it.

I think you will find the majority of the public believe in the same pseudoarchaeology/nonsense about Oak island you do. If you search Oak Island on Amazon/Google books, why are almost none of the books from a sceptical point of view?

Hi Cryptid1990,
Just for moment think (if only secretly to yourself) what if I am wrong, and that old from England is actually right and the he is actually the real deal we have been waiting for. Maybe if I am always polite and respectful I might then learn something to my advantage, give it a try.

Oak Island Sage

 

[TruthbeTold]

Cyptid,
I wouldn't bother trying to change OI Sage's mind because he is committed to theories in his. Just not gonna happen.

Its the same problem OI Sage will have convincing rick and marty to dig else where other than the MP.

OI sage doesn't beleive in an oak island treasure either. They just want to hype and sell their fictional book.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

How could you know that for certain if you haven't bought it or read it.

Hi Cryptid1990,
Just for moment think (if only secretly to yourself) what if I am wrong, and that old from England is actually right and the he is actually the real deal we have been waiting for. Maybe if I am always polite and respectful I might then learn something to my advantage, give it a try.

Oak Island Sage

Cryptid1880
Ok it's time to put up or shut up, I will pay $1,000 US to the administrator of Treasure Net to be donated to the charity of his choice if any of you guys are willing to match and take this bet and submit definitive proof that I am wrong.
I say that
1/ There was no treasure was ever stored in the Money Pit, it was designed as a sand sump.
2/ No cribbing was used in the Money Pit only several log platforms let into niches cut into the walls of the shaft.
2/ The Deadman's Island map was genuinely signed by Captain William Kidd.

I'm sure you learned gentlemen will jump at the chance to shoot down a foolish old man with ridiculous theories who is not in your league right.

Oak Island Sage

 

[chalkoutline]

How could you know that for certain if you haven't bought it or read it.

My interest is only in the MP story and whether i should start watching COOI again. Based on my research there is no reason to watch.

Here's my suggestion to you...
You mentioned you have CAD drawings in your book. This means you can approximate how much soil was removed and from these estimates you can calculate how long it took to dig the 183ft deep MP/Sand sump, the multiple 2.5'x4' flood tunnels, the shaft to the treasure chamber and the treasure chamber itself.

Based on my calculations for the boys digging a 30ft deep hole (9 month), it had to have taken years with ships coming in and out of port bringing supplies and logs from, i think you said, South America.

It seems the scale of the excavation and the years involved couldn't have gone unnoticed and not the covert operation you claim it was but that's my opinion. Im sure yours is different.

For me there are just too many loose ends, unanswered questions and use of terms that are not period accuratet for me to buy your book.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Let's please keep it cordial ...

 

[K9-1]

These guys are having fun and following thru on a childhood dream! They've dumped tons of money into this and now im sure other investors have. They have found things of archeological significance. So im in!
I dont know if there is treasure there? I didnt read any books or read all these posts. Im just happy people out there are following their dreams and having fun! If there is treasure awsome! If not atleast they tried!
People can sit and judge all they want,but sitting around doing nothing brings no reward! The people who get out there and look and put boots on the ground are rewarded! Maybe not with gold and diamonds,but the experience and living life is a reward all on its own!

 

[K9-1]

Think about it.
If you had the money,equipment, and time and you had since childhood been convinced there was a treasure....lost Dutchmans mine,confederate gold,ect. You're sure you know where it is what would you do? Listen to everyone who says you're wrong and set down your shovel and always wonder...what if?
Or do you say screw it and go for your dream!
My old job took me around the world. I heard fantastical stories from treasure to strange animals. Ive done security for archeologist, biologists and treasure hunters in Kruger National Park. Ive gone to some crazy places and can absolutely 100% tell you there's alot left for people to find! Now at these times I wasnt into treasure or any of that. I just wanted my money! But I got to live and have fun!
So does that treasure really exist or is it just a tall tail! Get up and go find out! Dont judge from a tv and your chair. Treasure comes in many forms...imo

 

[Carl-NC]

Ok it's time to put up or shut up, I will pay $1,000 US to the administrator of Treasure Net to be donated to the charity of his choice if any of you guys are willing to match and take this bet and submit definitive proof that I am wrong.
I say that
1/ There was no treasure was ever stored in the Money Pit, it was designed as a sand sump.
2/ No cribbing was used in the Money Pit only several log platforms let into niches cut into the walls of the shaft.
2/ The Deadman's Island map was genuinely signed by Captain William Kidd.

Usually it is the responsibility of the person asserting claims to provide proof (or at least evidence) of those claims. So what proof do you have that the MP was a sand sump? What proof do you have that there were multiple log platforms cut into niches*? What proof do you have that Kidd signed the map, or that the map is even old enough for Kidd to have signed it?

Conversely, what evidence would you consider sufficient to "prove" your assertions wrong? If a known historical expert on Kidd says the map signature is highly unlikely, is that enough? It is otherwise almost impossible to "prove" your assertions wrong (like proving unicorns don't exist), the best we can do is apply likelihoods to them. So your "bet" is probably safe, especially if it requires "proving" all 3 assertions to be wrong.
------------------------------------------
*The log platforms is one of those elements of the legend that has been inconsistent over the years. Which version is true?

• The boys discovered some logs at 10 feet
• The boys discovered a log platform at 10 feet
• The boys discovered log platforms every 10 feet
• The boys discovered oak plank platforms every 10 feet
• The boys discovered a log platform at 10 feet, then cuts in the wall of the pit every 10 feet beyond.
• The boys discovered a log platform at 10 feet, then charcoal/clay/coir every 10 feet beyond.

Anyone who wishes to claim any one of these is true, I'd like to see the "proof."

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Not true. Folks have been digging there for 230 years without a scrap of evidence beyond a depression in the ground. In fact, the evidence that does exist has been blithely ignored. The only thing that has prevented the recovery of the OI treasure is the existence of the OI treasure.

I realize that you now postulate the treasure is now on another part of the island, but your proposal is even more preposterous than a simple buried treasure, and lacks even a depression in the ground. But you know, I think that's exactly what COOI should do: move operations to the other side and start digging. Let's see what doesn't happen.

Lack of depression is easily explained by all that treasure volume creating a bump when back-filled. They expected to be able to find the location by topography later. But the place settled and leveled off due to erosion and Solifluction. Best laid plans of mice and men ...

 

[K9-1]

Anyone ever heard of the Native Americans tell tales of white guys on the island? Im just curious. Id think there would be atleast a story or 2 about white guys in ships digging a big hole.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Cryptid1880
Ok it's time to put up or shut up, I will pay $1,000 US to the administrator of Treasure Net to be donated to the charity of his choice if any of you guys are willing to match and take this bet and submit definitive proof that I am wrong.
I say that
1/ There was no treasure was ever stored in the Money Pit, it was designed as a sand sump.
2/ No cribbing was used in the Money Pit only several log platforms let into niches cut into the walls of the shaft.
2/ The Deadman's Island map was genuinely signed by Captain William Kidd.

I'm sure you learned gentlemen will jump at the chance to shoot down a foolish old man with ridiculous theories who is not in your league right.

Oak Island Sage

Think about it.
If you had the money,equipment, and time and you had since childhood been convinced there was a treasure....lost Dutchmans mine,confederate gold,ect. You're sure you know where it is what would you do? Listen to everyone who says you're wrong and set down your shovel and always wonder...what if?
Or do you say screw it and go for your dream!
My old job took me around the world. I heard fantastical stories from treasure to strange animals. Ive done security for archeologist, biologists and treasure hunters in Kruger National Park. Ive gone to some crazy places and can absolutely 100% tell you there's alot left for people to find! Now at these times I wasnt into treasure or any of that. I just wanted my money! But I got to live and have fun!
So does that treasure really exist or is it just a tall tail! Get up and go find out! Dont judge from a tv and your chair. Treasure comes in many forms...imo

Hi K9-1
I envy you your adventures, you've had great experiences for sure.
Let's say hypothetically that you have the necessary clues to locate the Oak Island treasure. Great you feel but then you learn that the treasure hunters who own the land and permits want to see everything you have upfront first - on trust. That is where I still am today after twenty four years of trying to broker a share deal in vain. You suggested that someone who is convinced they have right answers should go there in person, speaking for myself I have been to Oak Island and by personal by invitation.
The early treasure hunters in the past did not get on at all, a real dangerous feud existed with guns removed from the island by the RCMP's. But after much persuasion secured truce I have a signed document to prove that the late Dan Blankenship was willing to work with the late Fred Nolan on my recovery project, that achievement is unique and it speaks volumes for my credibility. Sadly at the time the third big player David Tobias would not agree to work with Dan and the deal fell through. I have spoken at length in person and on phone to each of the previous treasure hunters and the current seekers, three months ago it was with Craig and Rick at a Zoom meeting but the old stalemate is still there. I'm pushing 86 now so it is unlikely that treasure will ever be recovered if they don't use me soon. The partners of Cerca Trova have my no-win-no pay offer on the table so the ball is in their court now. They know that I want no part of recovered treasure just a fair recompense for my assistance.

Oak Island Sage

 

[K9-1]

Hi K9-1
I envy you your adventures, you've had great experiences for sure.
Let's say hypothetically that you have the necessary clues to locate the Oak Island treasure. Great you feel but then you learn that the treasure hunters who own the land and permits want to see everything you have upfront first - on trust. That is where I still am today after twenty four years of trying to broker a share deal in vain. You suggested that someone who is convinced they have right answers should go there in person, speaking for myself I have been to Oak Island and by personal by invitation.
The early treasure hunters in the past did not get on at all, a real dangerous feud existed with guns removed from the island by the RCMP's. But after much persuasion secured truce I have a signed document to prove that the late Dan Blankenship was willing to work with the late Fred Nolan on my recovery project, that achievement is unique and it speaks volumes for my credibility. Sadly at the time the third big player David Tobias would not agree to work with Dan and the deal fell through. I have spoken at length in person and on phone to each of the previous treasure hunters and the current seekers, three months ago it was with Craig and Rick at a Zoom meeting but the old stalemate is still there. I'm pushing 86 now so it is unlikely that treasure will ever be recovered if they don't use me soon. The partners of Cerca Trova have my no-win-no pay offer on the table so the ball is in their court now. They know that I want no part of recovered treasure just a fair recompense for my assistance.

Oak Island Sage

1st thats awsome you have done the research and have compelling evidence.
I wouldn't show them poop without a contract!
I feel for your situation! You're so close,but so far! Stick to your guns! If they end up with nothing well then they shoulda honored the original deal you had!

 

[Oak Island Sage]

1st thats awsome you have done the research and have compelling evidence.
I wouldn't show them poop without a contract!
I feel for your situation! You're so close,but so far! Stick to your guns! If they end up with nothing well then they shoulda honored the original deal you had!

K9-1

 

[Oak Island Sage]

K9-1

Hi K9-1
Thank you for your kind remarks, at last - someone who understands my own frustrating situation. About eighteen months ago I had a zoom meeting with Craig Tester and Rick Lagina, I offered to assist them to locate and retrieve the treasure providing that in return their company Cerca Trova would get my book published, I told them that I want no part of any treasure. All the publishers that my partner tried in Nova Scotia had about two year backlog waiting list. I waited six weeks for a reply a from Rick Lagina who is the President of Cerca Trova company, and when it did not arrive I withdrew my offer. Two weeks later I was finally informed by him that my offer might be be possible, I replied that that particular offer was no longer on the table because I have now paid $2, 500 US to an American publisher. Writing my book was not done purely for profit, I'll be lucky to break even, it was done because I wanted to present my own story and to enlighten people to what in my view really happened on Oak Island. My book is based on a mixture of known fact, and logical probability - as I see it.
I came to Treasure Net to both promote my book and to try to give honest answers to any polite questions put to me appertaining to Oak Island, but now some people are demanding conclusive evidence to support my statements, if I respond they disagree and it descends into an argument I don't need at my age. People are so fed up with excuses after years of waiting, and I don't blame them one bit for believing that there is not even a treasure on Oak Island.

I will tell you the truth KN-9 which will be tantamount to kicking over a hornets nest but I don't give a d-m, I am the best researcher on Oak Island and being close to 86 if the present searchers don't use me very soon the great treasure will in all probability not be recovered - period.

I am too old to put up with the arguments and demands for proof now, sometimes it comes from people who haven't even read my book but they crave a feeling of importance. I know from bitter experience that some writers will sometime challenge my theories aggressively in the hope that I angerly respond and let slip some new vital piece of information that they can't get, or to obtain a secret that they can include in their book. I have tried to respond with honest answers and help, unfortunately these people would not know the meaning of the idiom "Never look a gift horse in the mouth".
I hope you get to read my book Oak Island Treasure Revelations by Cerris Francis K9-1 and to check out my website, you may find something in it of interest to you and if so you are able to give it a favourable review, it would be nice to receive some.

Oak Island Sage

 

[chalkoutline]

now some people are demanding conclusive evidence to support my statements

With regards to my questions, i am not asking that you prove your theory but rather see myself as a fact checker trying to understand HOW you verified your theory is plausible.

According to my research and calculations it seems you have overlooked many factors that seem to be very important in building a strong, easy to defend theory.

 

[K9-1]

Hi K9-1
Thank you for your kind remarks, at last - someone who understands my own frustrating situation. About eighteen months ago I had a zoom meeting with Craig Tester and Rick Lagina, I offered to assist them to locate and retrieve the treasure providing that in return their company Cerca Trova would get my book published, I told them that I want no part of any treasure. All the publishers that my partner tried in Nova Scotia had about two year backlog waiting list. I waited six weeks for a reply a from Rick Lagina who is the President of Cerca Trova company, and when it did not arrive I withdrew my offer. Two weeks later I was finally informed by him that my offer might be be possible, I replied that that particular offer was no longer on the table because I have now paid $2, 500 US to an American publisher. Writing my book was not done purely for profit, I'll be lucky to break even, it was done because I wanted to present my own story and to enlighten people to what in my view really happened on Oak Island. My book is based on a mixture of known fact, and logical probability - as I see it.
I came to Treasure Net to both promote my book and to try to give honest answers to any polite questions put to me appertaining to Oak Island, but now some people are demanding conclusive evidence to support my statements, if I respond they disagree and it descends into an argument I don't need at my age. People are so fed up with excuses after years of waiting, and I don't blame them one bit for believing that there is not even a treasure on Oak Island.

I will tell you the truth KN-9 which will be tantamount to kicking over a hornets nest but I don't give a d-m, I am the best researcher on Oak Island and being close to 86 if the present searchers don't use me very soon the great treasure will in all probability not be recovered - period.

I am too old to put up with the arguments and demands for proof now, sometimes it comes from people who haven't even read my book but they crave a feeling of importance. I know from bitter experience that some writers will sometime challenge my theories aggressively in the hope that I angerly respond and let slip some new vital piece of information that they can't get, or to obtain a secret that they can include in their book. I have tried to respond with honest answers and help, unfortunately these people would not know the meaning of the idiom "Never look a gift horse in the mouth".
I hope you get to read my book Oak Island Treasure Revelations by Cerris Francis K9-1 and to check out my website, you may find something in it of interest to you and if so you are able to give it a favourable review, it would be nice to receive some.

Oak Island Sage

Well thanks to Amazon Friday ill have the hardcover version of your book!
Really looking forward to reading it!
It may snow here Saturday and ill get the fire going and start my reading!