"Quill polisher/flattner" ? ...maybe these pics will help in the ID..?

[curious kat]

"Quill polisher/flattner" ? ...maybe these pic's will help in the ID..?

...I took it out of the case & took these new pic's. It feels like "rock" not light like bone, but looks like bone, odd? That other "sharp" thing seems like bone. So, is it a "flattner"? And the other is a ? Thanks guys

 

[Get-the-point]

Not getting defensive at all. Just curious how you are coming up with your opinion. Now that you already told me that your knowledge is based on current learning. Just because you acquired some bone from Steve does not make your opinion flawed. Yes a picture can tell a story yet to really know the artifacts story, it needs to be in hand. This artifact tells a different story then the one you are coming up with. Pretty much all of the quill flatteners that I have looked at show no notching. What is your rationalization on that? I can give a guess but since bone is something I really do not collect I cannot tell you. I just think to make a opinion on this one based on contemporary form is premature to say the least. The hafting is there for a reason. Is it a spent Bow? Is it a flaking tool hafted to a handle or is it a quill flattener? I thought you do not deal in absolutes?

 

[GatorBoy]

I'm making determinations based on what I see in photographs.
Let's take the hafted pressure flaking tool Theory.. There is no visible damage from pressing bone against hard stone on the working end... And there is no damage from repeated pressure into the notched areas if that were the case there would definitely be damage there.
There is however obvious polish on the working end consistent with many strokes up against a finely course to almost smooth surface.
I'm making judgements based on deduction and hands-on experience with bone tools.
There's nothing premature about trying to come to a conclusion on an artifact.. Yall act like you're scared to have an opinion... Or you think I should be sorry that's not going to work for me
If you think I'm making my judgements based on some bone I acquired from Steve you're sadly mistaken... I'm not going to post my entire collection of bone just to prove myself to you or anyone else.. Take this statement that I made pick them apart however you would like.. I stand behind them and I'm pretty sure they will stand on their own

 

[Get-the-point]

Wow easy there buddy, I just asked you a question. I believe you have given a assumption but that is my "Opinion". If you have a collection of bone so be it. Does that make it Mandan in design? Are they identical in most ways? Does it look like shared technology? You may have a handle on relics of your area but you are assuming on Steve's area. The hafting grooves are there for a reason. It could be a pottery designer, it could be a couple things. Not just the one you are giving.

 

[GatorBoy]

Now this is only a suggestion but I think you should look into use wear analysis.
That study transcends the cultures and stretches as far as the materials themselves.
Why not use this opportunity of being in a forum environment as a think tank instead of a battle arena?
Maybe I have some good ideas maybe you have some good ideas maybe I can offer some proof and some knowledge maybe you could do the same maybe at the end of the day we could come up with a good final solution

 

[GatorBoy]

Not for nothing but I don't think we can rule out the Broken Bow theory.. That was a good one

 

[Get-the-point]

Now this is only a suggestion but I think you should look into use wear analysis.
That study transcends the cultures and stretches as far as the materials themselves.
Why not use this opportunity of being in a forum environment as a think tank instead of a battle arena?
Maybe I have some good ideas maybe you have some good ideas maybe I can offer some proof and some knowledge maybe you could do the same maybe at the end of the day we could come up with a good final solution

Why not use this opportunity of being in a forum environment as a think tank instead of a battle arena?

You really should think about this statement and apply it. I am using this as a think tank. Without locking on one specific possibility, I am trying to show you that maybe there is another use for it. You have a one sided thought process. I am trying to show you several angles so use that and jump into the think tank and maybe a true solution can be made in detail. Whether it be a quill flattener, a pottery designing tool, a pressure flaker or so on. Through deductive reasoning it can be possibly concluded. Not the finite solution you gave.

http://www.indians.org/articles/bow-and-arrows.html
http://nmnh.typepad.com/rogers_archaeology_lab/ethnography/

 

[GatorBoy]

The difference here is I supply facts & proof and examples with my theory's I'm not just heckling.. Why don't you present your case?
Come on Chris you even questioned my tenure.. my ability to know what I was talking about..and the methods in which I gain my knowledge.. Without being able to refute anything I said.
Then I supplied further explanation as to why I thought the way I did.. And I still see no other information being supplied.
I'm tired of typing have a good night

 

[curious kat]

Hey guys....wow...feel like I'm in class getting a lesson...thanks for helping me on this, you guys know so much! So maybe it was something and then was used for something else after it broke? But really, I do appreciate everyone's help and a good debate is not a bad thing either...

 

[Get-the-point]

Notching on a rib bone would be conclusive of a bow. The salvaged end showing usage wear would be conclusive to either a pressure flaking tool or pottery inscribing tool or a quill flattener. Again to be absolute on a artifact like this is impossible and the arrogance you are showing trying to press your deep analysis of it without having it in hand, is once again a finite claim by someone who has only held a handful of Western bone relics. I have looked it over and the possibilities of it are as I stated. That is a fact without being conclusive as no one is capable of knowing that. So Bill why is it you cannot accept that? Why is it you challenge me when this is something not worth challenging as I have stated I only have limited experience with bone from the west. Thanks to Steve. Yet I dare not give a solid statement on it as this artifact has usage you have never seen until now. Like me. I am done typing. It is really difficult to enlighten and open your mind. No matter how many times I talk to you, you have some sort of MEME or some sort of snap comment filled with sarcasm. What is your inability to hear common sense in deductive reasoning skills? Every comment I tell you to think about as there are other possibilities you snap back with a sarcastic reply. What are you afraid of? "Learning?" Really man time to throw the little boy pants away and start opening your mind up like most adults here on the site do.

 

[GatorBoy]

Go back and reread your first couple of comments to me on this thread.. Then apply everything you just typed to yourself.
Just don't like being talked to by somebody who comes off like a spoiled kid who is used to getting their way.
You just recently stepped back into this forum and brought your attitude with you.
Somebody made a comment about your people skills being lacking in the probability that you may have needed more spankings as a child... Pretty close to where I'm at with you I must say..
Get over yourself.
It took you that many words just to say... I don't know... ?
So just say ...I don't know.... You don't have to agree with anything I said.... But I do not have to justify what I say to you or in any way shape or form have your permission to speak my mind.
Stick a needle in that big ol head..
You put yourself up on a pedestal from the very beginning...
If it was a pottery tool it wouldn't be for inscribing either.. It would be for smoothing.

 

[larson1951]

i want to say if you look at my avatar you will see two tools that had several uses from ceremonial to being used as quill processors

yes those two birds heads were used for processing quills

now that piece of kats could also be a broke (or complete) knife handle or a paint stick but i don't think we will ever know for sure

 

[bravowhiskey]

there is some belief that some tools employed a wrist strap. I have tools in my tool bag with a wrist strap still today. This may have been the case, in reference to the notches.

Could have been the same for quill flattener? just to make it handier, free up a hand.

BTW...what were quill flatteners used for? I do know when one flattens out a porcupine quill it makes it easier to remove.

guess it is time to google same.

 

[curious kat]

...hey guys...just something to point out about my "thingy"....would it matter that it's made of "stone"...or maybe "stone/bone fossil" ? I mentioned it with the pictures, it's not bone-light weight. Tested by tapping on my teeth...lol... it just feels & clicks like "rock". It that an OK way to test?

 

[GatorBoy]

It looks like bone to me.. it sounds heavily mineralized.
Can you photograph closely the damaged area to see if it shows a bone matrix?

 

[curious kat]

I think so to!...But it seems heavy for bone & glassy on teeth...can you see those sort of swirling colors in it? Would bone have that? I'll try to take a photo like you said and look at it with a jewelers glass to...later & thank you again for all your help GatorBoy

 

[larson1951]

there is some belief that some tools employed a wrist strap. I have tools in my tool bag with a wrist strap still today. This may have been the case, in reference to the notches.

Could have been the same for quill flattener? just to make it handier, free up a hand.

BTW...what were quill flatteners used for? I do know when one flattens out a porcupine quill it makes it easier to remove.

well hey hey bravo me man, actually the quills were flattened and then dyed to the 3 colors and used for inlay decoration on moccasins, par fleche, and other articles


guess it is time to google same.

...hey guys...just something to point out about my "thingy"....would it matter that it's made of "stone"...or maybe "stone/bone fossil" ? I mentioned it with the pictures, it's not bone-light weight. Tested by tapping on my teeth...lol... it just feels & clicks like "rock". It that an OK way to test?

I think so to!...But it seems heavy for bone & glassy on teeth...can you see those sort of swirling colors in it? Would bone have that? I'll try to take a photo like you said and look at it with a jewelers glass to...later & thank you again for all your help GatorBoy

hey hey kat
well if it IS made of rock then it could change everything i said.......so find out if it is bone or stone for me?

just gotta say i think you have some sort of artifact....probably not a geofact and cool but we will maybe never know?

and although cool i am sure you agree it is not worth arguing about....kat you are cool.....keep hunting and posting my tnet friend
larson1951

 

[GatorBoy]

I think so to!...But it seems heavy for bone & glassy on teeth...can you see those sort of swirling colors in it? Would bone have that? I'll try to take a photo like you said and look at it with a jewelers glass to...later & thank you again for all your help GatorBoy

Your always welcome

 

[curious kat]

... GatorBoy here's the new pictures, hope they help maybe? It still seems like "stone" in the way it feels...but dang if it doesn't look like bone!.... But where it's broken I can't see a bone like look!? And thank you larson, that's interesting what you posted from bravowhisky and yes, it's always nice to "get along" with others Thanks guys...

 

[rock]

looks like stone to me but im not positive

 

[curious kat]

...Hi rock...well, could it be made from bone that's fossilized? Oh well, it's interesting, and like Larson said maybe will never know for sure...but that's OK to..