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The Captain Kidd Treasure Maps and Oak Island

There it is, the Sage Maneuver. If you haven't written a book, you can't possibly know anything.
We won't be further responding to each other but for the record I mentioned in the other thread that I was writing an article for a journal. It will take me months and I am still writing the manuscript but I have another article for a webzine hopefully coming out in the next few days.
 
There it is, the Sage Maneuver. If you haven't written a book, you can't possibly know anything.
It's called 'Putting your money where your mouth is' with a belief in yourself and work. Two books to tell the mainly untold story. Many years of work and research for the benefit of you and the readers. The info therein for your benifit whether you utilise it or not, and I am of course allowed to publish my own views. You are so quick to criticise. What have you published? I'll give you another example of my character and something I am equally proud of - A distraught lady lost a £10,000 diamond ring in the sea off Majorca. I told her I would find it, and against all the odds, I did, because I believed in myself.
 
It's called 'Putting your money where your mouth is' with a belief in yourself and work. Two books to tell the mainly untold story. Many years of work and research for the benefit of you and the readers.
Sorry to say so but where other's benefits lay are not for your to decide. There are a lot of books out there that contain all kind of claims and while some call some of them holy others call the rubbish. So you see...

You know how many books I wrote? Truly what does it matter? Does an argument become invalid because someone doesn't got a certain label on themselves ? Is the dress of the astrologist in "The Little Prince" really the measure of truth for everyone?

The info therein for your benifit whether you utilise it or not, and I am of course allowed to publish my own views. You are so quick to criticise. What have you published? I'll give you another example of my character and something I am equally proud of - A distraught lady lost a £10,000 diamond ring in the sea off Majorca. I told her I would find it, and against all the odds, I did, because I believed in myself.
I think it would be wise not to dismiss this important discovery - no matter where you own ideas have led you. So I have to teach you something too: The hardest thing is to climb a mountain and then to turn around a mile before you reach the peak because you run out of time to get back in daylight.
 
Sorry to say so but where other's benefits lay are not for your to decide. There are a lot of books out there that contain all kind of claims and while some call some of them holy others call the rubbish. So you see...

You know how many books I wrote? Truly what does it matter? Does an argument become invalid because someone doesn't got a certain label on themselves ? Is the dress of the astrologist in "The Little Prince" really the measure of truth for everyone?


I think it would be wise not to dismiss this important discovery - no matter where you own ideas have led you. So I have to teach you something too: The hardest thing is to climb a mountain and then to turn around a mile before you reach the peak because you run out of time to get back in daylight.
Some people are a complete waste of time talking to. Won't be looking at anything else you have to say.
 
You know how many books I wrote? Truly what does it matter? Does an argument become invalid because someone doesn't got a certain label on themselves ? Is the dress of the astrologist in "The Little Prince" really the measure of truth for everyone?
Since he mentioned his two books, I took a look at the publisher of Kidd: The Search for His Treasure - The Pentland Press. As I expected, this was a vanity press. Not only a vanity press but a highly controversial one that got into legal and financial trouble and was closed down.


We came across "Tony" Phillips in 2002 when a previous vanity publishing outfit of his collapsed. Pentland Press owed £260,000, much of it to disappointed authors. One of them, Reg Weaver of Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, paid £5,800 for Pentland to publish his book of poems, which sold just four copies.
This firm [The Pentland Press] is a well-documented example of predatory "vanity publishing", where authors pay the upfront costs for printing rather than earning royalties based on sales.
I also took a look at the publisher of Anson's Gold - Filament Publishing. No surprise, another vanity press or hybrid (mostly vanity press). Hilariously, if you look up the address of Filament Publishing - it is someone's house. This is a vanity press out of someone's bedroom. I do one day plan to publish a detailed book on the Kidd-Palmer maps; suffice to say I will not be using a vanity press but a reputable publisher.
 
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It's called 'Putting your money where your mouth is' with a belief in yourself and work.
Since there is now no up-front cost in self-publishing a book, what you are actually doing is "putting everyone else's money where your mouth is." Mr. Smith has published his results, right here on TNet, where everyone can read it at absolutely no cost. Not only that, but denizens are free to challenge his results and he can respond in real time. As opposed to publishing a book that you have to buy, then take it or leave it.

Besides that, I would never consider a published book to infer any sense of accuracy. In the world of treasure books, the market is loaded with junk. Thomas P. Terry and W.C. Jameson are good examples of treasure books that are probably 95% fiction, practically worthless to anyone actually looking for treasure. I have no idea about your particular books, but if you knew about the Rainbow Island map and omitted that from your books then you have avoided "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Because, based on what Mr. Smith has shown, 1903 stands as the earliest version of any "China Sea" map we know of, and is far more likely the source of the Kidd-Palmer maps. Claiming the other way around begs for evidence, and currently there is none.

You are so quick to criticise. What have you published?
"Inside the Metal Detector," 3rd ed, a 635 page tome on metal detector technology. The most in-depth book ever written on designing detectors.

BTW, I am not questioning your character. But new evidence has arisen and you are fighting it tooth & nail, with the inane suggestion that if it ain't published, it ain't worth spit. I disagree.
 
There it is, the Sage Maneuver. If you haven't written a book, you can't possibly know anything.
Carl-NC, There it is, again you go making disparaging remarks about me just because you have no idea of my motive.

Let me ask you this have I ever made any derogatory comments regarding you or your theories, no! then please extend the same courtesy to me. And if your buddy does ever write a book I will be among the first to review it.:evil4:

Oak Island Sage
 
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Some people are a complete waste of time talking to.
Seldom but it happens that we find ourselves in complete agreement. Depends of course who you pointing at with "Some people". From where I stand your manners are insulting to say the least. If you run out of arguments its no ones fault but your regularly lecturing others and slamming the door in their faces is not helping your arguments.
 
There it is, again you go making disparaging remarks about me just because you have no idea of my motive.
I'm only pointing out your repeated dismissal of others' arguments, because they haven't done what you've done, or been where you've been, or met who you've met. If that wasn't your motive, feel free to elaborate. Otherwise, I'll continue to take it at face value and if that bothers you, then that's on you.
 
Since he mentioned his two books, I took a look at the publisher of Kidd: The Search for His Treasure - The Pentland Press. As I expected, this was a vanity press. Not only a vanity press but a highly controversial one that got into legal and financial trouble and was closed down.




I also took a look at the publisher of Anson's Gold - Filament Publishing. No surprise, another vanity press or hybrid (mostly vanity press). Hilariously, if you look up the address of Filament Publishing - it is someone's house. This is a vanity press out of someone's bedroom. I do one day plan to publish a detailed book on the Kidd-Palmer maps; suffice to say I will not be using a vanity press but a reputable publisher.
Well you've got that wrong, again. These days most authors pay upfront towards printing costs, and I do get royalties 😇 You are laughing at the expence of publishing companies who due to difficult times face financial problems, this happened to Filament Publishing, the Director had to work from home but got back to running his company. Why don't you give them a call and find out the situation? You haven't got the guts. Your smug face will change when you discover you will have to part with cash. Why are you always looking to cause trouble? no wonder you are not liked on this Forum.
 
:icon_scratch:
AnsonsGold.com? The publisher [...] (they make the money, not me).
 
Because, based on what Mr. Smith has shown, 1903 stands as the earliest version of any "China Sea" map we know of, and is far more likely the source of the Kidd-Palmer maps. Claiming the other way around begs for evidence, and currently there is none.
Correct. The problem is some forum members have previously claimed to have "solved" the maps prior to me finding the actual solution (the RI and tin cannister maps in Rainbow Island [1903] I first posted). These forum members now face having to admit they were wrong and they were not the first to solve the Kidd-Palmer maps. Some of them cannot bring themselves to concede this because they desperately want to be the first person to have solved the maps. I beat them to it but they cannot now bring themselves to admit this. However, some posters privately messaged me to congratulate me. I have also received emails from some people who had different ideas about the Kidd-Palmer maps (a few I debated last year) but now admitted they were wrong and gave me credit. Since the maps are a hoax, copied from the fictional RI map, and there is no real treasure, I do not understand why some posters cannot simply acknowledge I solved the maps. :dontknow:
 
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Getting this thread back on track. Gjb's far-fetched idea about the Kidd-Palmer maps is that the set of instructions on the Kidd-Palmer maps (namely the Skeleton Map and Coral Island Map) relate to a "geometrical pattern on Oak Island":
The suggestion is that there is a single set of rules governing the formulation of all five instruction sets provided by the maps and that the matching of these clues to a geometrical pattern on Oak Island may well provide the ‘missing’ evidence of a planned deposit.
The instructions (including geographical coordinates) on the Skeleton Map are as follows:

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Latitude: 9.16 N
Longitude: 431.30 E or 31.30 E

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360 yards V. R North 33 stumps: 55 feet

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four [or for] centre of tri [illegible] rocks 20 feet

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E skeleton [or stele] of [illegible]

As I explained in my own thread (see particularly my first post as well as this comment), the latitude on the Skeleton Map was copied from the tin cannister and RI map (both are identical: 9.16 N); the longitude on both maps is also similar, and the instructions on the margins of the Skeleton Map have to be used on the RI (Rainbow Island) map. In other words, the source of the instructions is the RI map - fiction. This makes sense when you realise the instructions relate heavily to the plot of the book; there are no clues on these maps to a real treasure.

The answer to the directional instructions on the Skeleton Map obviously relate to the Rainbow Island map. You have to use the instructions on the Skeleton Map on the Rainbow Island map (such as measuring by yards [see the scale]) to make sense. It is all fiction. There is no real treasure. This disproves the poster Gjb's far-fetched claims that the instructions on the Skeleton Map point to a deposit on Oak Island.

There are no hidden clues in the Skeleton Map to Oak Island or a deposit on Oak Island nor an imaginary "Lord Anson file" or a treasure on Pinaki atoll (the poster I put on ignore is preposterously claiming without a shred of evidence). These far-fetched claims by posters on this forum have been disproven. The template of the Kidd-Palmer maps is without doubt the RI map (same island shape, topography, etc) and the latitude on the Skeleton Map was copied from the same RI map; the instructions also relate to the RI map. The Kidd-Palmer maps have therefore been solved. This has apparently upset some people because I was the first to find the actual solution but people should move on to answer the next question: who was the hoaxer? I am now trying to answer that question and have already put together a lot of evidence.
 
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Correct. The problem is some forum members have previously claimed to have "solved" the maps prior to me finding the actual solution (the RI and tin cannister maps in Rainbow Island [1903] I first posted). These forum members now face having to admit they were wrong and they were not the first to solve the Kidd-Palmer maps. Some of them cannot bring themselves to concede this because they desperately want to be the first person to have solved the maps. I beat them to it but they cannot now bring themselves to admit this. However, some posters privately messaged me to congratulate me. I have also received emails from some people who had different ideas about the Kidd-Palmer maps (a few I debated last year) but now admitted they were wrong and gave me credit. Since the maps are a hoax, copied from the fictional RI map, and there is no real treasure, I do not understand why some posters cannot simply acknowledge I solved the maps. :dontknow:
It's simple, because you haven't solved the maps, that was done over 15 years ago with published evidence in 'Anson's Gold'. Which reminds me, and you keep avoiding, the Kidd chart figures were not seen for the first time on the Rainbow Island map, they appeared over 150 years earlier on Anson's monument having originally come from the Spanish. It is all so obvious to everyone but you. Can't wait to see your book (you'll have to pay for the printing!) and the fantasy story you concoct to try and prove otherwise.
 
I was the first to find the actual solution but people should move on to answer the next question: who was the hoaxer? I am now trying to answer that question and have already put together a lot of evidence.
I still think the easiest theory would be Cutler. But I do question he copied the maps from the book but rather think he copied them of some earlier sketches. It explains all those details that differ from the RI map to the Palmer Maps. Why would a hoaxer add those death valley details not fond on the RI map that have nothing to do with KIdd's treasure?

Also I am reading about Shiel and his affection for islands. And woman (Could it be that this "Pamela Hardy" was one of them?) I think she could be the link in that chain.

Shiel was quite poor and maybe he just created that hoax to get a free passage back home (Montserrat where he did grow up). I read about a creole who convinced some 19th century Englishman to do an expedition to Cape Verde just to get back to his home island. He pretended to know of some pirate treasure buried there.

Just to give some ideas...
 
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These days most authors pay upfront towards printing cost
That's the publishing model for the big guys: textbooks, best-sellers, and so forth. The little guys don't do it that way; POD is the way to go and KDP (Amazon) is the monster in the room. No up-front costs, just royalties. I used a traditional publisher for ITMD1, then KDP for ITMD2/3. Won't go back. ITMD3 is on every Amazon worldwide. I also published ITMD3 via IngramSpark (no up-front fees, either) so it is in every bookseller's catalog. Since all this is POD, I can modify the book contents anytime I want; I'm currently up to rev 3.05 after correcting typos. I could even add a whole new chapter if I want.

However, some posters privately messaged me to congratulate me.
Well, I'll publicly congratulate you. I've always assumed the maps were fake just based on circumstantial evidence, but thanks to you we now have solid evidence.
 
That's the publishing model for the big guys: textbooks, best-sellers, and so forth. The little guys don't do it that way; POD is the way to go and KDP (Amazon) is the monster in the room. No up-front costs, just royalties. I used a traditional publisher for ITMD1, then KDP for ITMD2/3. Won't go back. ITMD3 is on every Amazon worldwide. I also published ITMD3 via IngramSpark (no up-front fees, either) so it is in every bookseller's catalog. Since all this is POD, I can modify the book contents anytime I want; I'm currently up to rev 3.05 after correcting typos. I could even add a whole new chapter if I want.


Well, I'll publicly congratulate you. I've always assumed the maps were fake just based on circumstantial evidence, but thanks to you we now have solid evidence.
What SOLID evidence???
 
I will give the forum member I put on ignore one chance to substantiate his claims.

It's simple, because you haven't solved the maps, that was done over 15 years ago with published evidence in 'Anson's Gold'.
I own a copy of Anson's Gold. There is not a single mention of Rainbow Island (or Louis Tracy) in it nor a reproduction of the RI map from the novel (I was the first to scan and upload to the internet). Your book has a bibliography but does not either mention Tracy (nor his birth name) or any of his literature. If you are claiming you somehow knew of the tin cannister/RI map before me in relation to the Kidd-Palmer maps, where is your evidence? None of your books mention either the tin cannister or Rainbow Island (RI) map and none of your internet comments mentioned or alluded to either of these prior to my thread (you obviously read). As another poster pointed out: "someone coming out after somebodies else discovery claiming to have known all along without any evidence smells at least extremely bad."

To remind readers, the following is what you were instead claiming in Anson's Gold:

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You were evidently oblivious to the Rainbow Island map and instead claimed the Kidd-Palmer maps were based on a completely different map dated 1795 (Juan Fernandez Island aka Robinson Crusoe Island) by inverting it. Of course, you are wrong about that as well. The hoaxer who drew the Kidd-Palmer maps did not use an 18th century Juan Fernandez map at all but the Rainbow Island map. The Juan Fernandez map does not have a lagoon or similar topography to what appears on the Skeleton Map and the fact you have to invert the maps to show a superficial resemblance in shape only shows you are (to quote Sherlock Holmes): "twist[ing] facts to suit theories". As further evidence you did not know of the RI map (before me), your book (and internet comments you posted) were incorrectly claiming that 'Smuggler's Cove' on the Skeleton Map, is on the Juan Fernandez Island map as 'Padre Bay':

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So much for your book solving the Kidd-Palmer maps. You were not even close and way off the mark.

Smuggler's Cove on the Skeleton Map has nothing to do with Padre Bay on the Juan Fernandez Island map. As I proved in my own thread (and was the first to do so), Smuggler's Cove was copied from Smuggler's Cove on the RI map (it is the exact same annotated place name on both maps and in the same position). Nothing whatsoever to do with Padre Bay.

Which reminds me, and you keep avoiding, the Kidd chart figures were not seen for the first time on the Rainbow Island map, they appeared over 150 years earlier on Anson's monument having originally come from the Spanish. It is all so obvious to everyone but you. Can't wait to see your book (you'll have to pay for the printing!) and the fantasy story you concoct to try and prove otherwise.
There is no latitude and longitude written on "Anson's monument". I presume you mean the Shugborough inscription:

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The staff at Shugborough Hall have stated they get "five or six people a week who believe they have solved the code so we are a bit wary of them now." You claim to have deciphered or solved the inscription alongside thousands of other people who are non-experts. There is no evidence to begin with that O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V is a cryptogram (that requires a cipher); for example, some propose a much more mundane solution: the letters are merely graffiti or commemorative initials of past estate owners. I am not aware of a single academic who has ever taken your idea seriously and a search of your book on Google Scholar produces zero results. Your book was published a decade ago but does not have a single academic citation and the fact you published your far-fetched theory in a vanity-press book rather than a peer-reviewed article in a journal speaks for itself. Your book is highly speculative and pseudohistory like The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail.*

For readers who do not own the book, page 519:

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There is no evidence presented in the book that there is a "hidden" latitude and longitude in the inscription. It is all speculation and guesswork with numbers, albeit that is very implausible. I personally prefer a much more simple solution to what the inscription means.

*Anson's Gold in fact references The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and repeats unfounded claims about Rennes-le-Château.
 
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Well, I'll publicly congratulate you. I've always assumed the maps were fake just based on circumstantial evidence, but thanks to you we now have solid evidence.
Thanks, appreciated. :icon_thumright:
 
Thanks, appreciated. :icon_thumright:
Hi Cryptid1990, what "solid evidence" was your buddy Carl-NC talking about, I've yet to see some from you.

Your attempt to decipher the legend around the edge of the China Sea map is pathetic, but I suppose it's appropriate. If I kept a call from Rick Lagina or you manage to get yourself banned from Treasure Net, then I will post my own version and it's a lot better than your brilliant effort.

You describe the last word as Lib :laughing7: it's actually £16 (16 million pounds) that was Captain Kidd's estimated amount a what is stored in the subterranean repository by multiple people in around 1698, why not ask AI to tell you what that amounts to today.:o
Smile if you know how and where to retrieve the great treasure of Oak Island.:happy3:

Oak Island Sage
 
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