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The Treasure of Captain William Kidd.

Tim Travers is a professor emeritus of history at the University of Calgary. He is an expert in maritime history and taught the history of piracy for over 20 years. In 2007, he published Pirates: A History. Below I have copied a section of his book, "Buried Treasure".

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I already proved in my thread that Kidd never buried treasure by quoting from the trail witness testimonies, so this leaves only Captain Stratton. Travers provides an archival reference for Morgan Miles and Stratton's depositions: "Morgan Miles, deposition, 1721, ff. 9–10; Joseph Stratton, deposition, 14 November 1721, f. 14; HCA 1/55, PRO." These historical documents are housed in the High Court of Admiralty records at National Archives. Unfortunately, I cannot find them quoted anywhere to personally verify if they mention a buried treasure but I presume Travers accessed these records. Regardless, other historians have pointed out that Stratton does not qualify as a pirate burying treasure since he was not in fact a pirate. The naval historian David Cordingly in his book Under the Black Flag ([1997] p.179) notes "Stratton himself was a dishonest sea captain rather than a pirate." Stratton apparently traded with pirates but was not one himself.

Cordingly points out:

Although buried treasure has been a favorite theme in pirate stories of fiction, there are very few documented examples of real pirates burying their loot.
However, what are these "very few documented examples"? If you exclude Kidd (who did not bury treasure on Gardiner's Island [see my thread]) and exclude Stratton (who was not a pirate), there are no verified cases or documented examples of pirates burying treasure.
 
I have read that book by Travers. I have posted the full text below.

Treasure was also supposedly buried by various pirates, including William Kidd, on Oak Island off Nova Scotia. Kidd himself did not bury anything on Oak Island since he is not known to have visited there. In fact, treasure of any kind buried on Oak Island by any group of pirates or visiting ships is very improbable. This is because after many heroic attempts to locate treasure there over at least two centuries by treasure hunters, such treasure has not been found. No pirate or ship's crew would ever bury and conceal their wealth in such a difficult location that it couldn't be easily recovered. But there is another location where treasure is much more likely to be found, and this is St Mary's Island, off the ocean coast of Madagascar. Here, many pirates like Henry Avery, fresh from looting Muslim ships in the Red Sea and elsewhere (see Chapter 6), would either use the island to transship their enormous treasures home to the Caribbean, or the Americas, or Europe, or they might sell parts of it to traders like John Plantain on St Mary's Island, or they might actually stay on St Mary's Island for some years. In all those years, very large amounts of treasure passed through the island, from the 1680s to the 1720s. So, some of that treasure seems likely to have stayed on the island. Perhaps there are caches of treasure left behind, possibly at Ranter Bay, where the trader Plantain lived, since Plantain himself claimed to be very rich in gold and diamonds.64

One very specific location of treasure, allegedly buried by the pirate Blackbeard (Edward Teach), is recorded by the sailor and part time artilleryman in India, Clement Downing. According to Downing, when he was in India in the early eighteenth century, he met with a Portuguese man named Anthony de Silvestro. This man claimed to have been with Blackbeard when the pirate was killed. Silvestro reported that at York River, Chesapeake Bay, near Mulberry Island, Blackbeard's pirates buried 'considerable Sums of Money in great Chests, well clamp'd with Iron Plates.' Downing researched the story a little, and found that there was indeed an island called Mulberry Island, and stated:

If any person who uses those Parts, should think it worth while to dig a little way at the upper End of a small sandy Cove, where it is convenient to land, he would soon find whether the Information I had was well grounded. Fronting the Landing-Place are five Trees, amongst which, he [Silvestro] said, the Money was hid.

Downing added a rather plaintive request that if any one should benefit from his account, he hoped that they would remember him for his information. Downing obviously hoped for a finder's fee, but as of the present, no one has yet found any of Blackbeard's treasure at Mulberry Island, or anywhere else. Another explanation for the lack of success in finding this treasure is that Downing or Silvestro confused the Blackbeard story with the story of the burial of treasure from Captain Stratton's ship, previously mentioned, since that burial of treasure took place in exactly the same location, at the head of the York River in Chesapeake Bay, as recounted above. Moreover, Downing himself happened to give evidence to the High Court of the Admiralty only a year or two after the Stratton case was heard by the same High Court, so Downing probably confused the two stories in his memory. 65

One last place where pirate treasure can actually be found is in the wrecks of pirate ships. The most famous of these so far is the Whydah, the ship captained by the pirate Samuel Bellamy.

This ship was lost in a gale near Cape Cod in April 1717, with 144 onboard, of which only two survived. The Whydah was carrying four and a half tons of treasure, mainly gold and silver, but the ship was wrecked in only a quarter of an hour, and the remains of the wreck then spread out along the coast for some four miles. Scavengers quickly arrived on the scene, but the Whydah itself vanished under the sea until the wreck was rediscovered in 1984 by underwater searchers led by Barry Clifford. A large amount of treasure has been recovered from the Whydah wreck so far, including over 8,000 coins, 17 gold bars, 14 gold nuggets, and assorted amounts of gold dust and gold nuggets. This is certainly a very large treasure trove, yet the Whydah clearly held more when she sank. Another wreck that has been recovered is that of Blackbeard's Queen Anne's Revenge, which grounded at Beaufort Inlet, North Carolina. Many objects, including cannon, a ship's bell, and a urethral medical instrument for treating venereal disease, have been recovered, but so far no treasure. 66 Finally, it is of interest that the pirates themselves looked for ship wrecks in order to recover whatever treasure they could. One such wreck was found at Salt Key, near the Turks Islands, in 1686, where a ship with a great deal of bullion had gone down on a half moon reef. Divers went down soon after and recovered a large amount of bullion. The wreck was reported as lying at Latitude 20 degrees, 15 minutes north, not far from Porto Plato. 67
 
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I looked at the other source you posted:
Reasons for reducing the Pyrates at Madagascar, and proposals humbly offered to the House of Commons for effecting the same. (See following.)Certain Pyrates having found the Island of Madagascar to be the most proper if not the only place in the world for their abode, and carrying on their destructive trade with security etc., and being since increased to a formidable body are become a manifest obstruction to trade, and scandal to our nation and religion, being most of them, English, at least 4/5ths. Upon a General Peace, when multitudes of soldiers and seamen will want employment, or by length of time and the pyrates generating with the women of the country, their numbers should be increased, they may form themselves into a settlement of robbers, as prejudicial to trade as any on the coast of Affrica. It seems morally impossible to reduce them by force, for the pyrates have, by their liberality in bestowing part of their booties on the inhabitants, so gain'd their love and esteem that, should any superior force be sent to reduce them, they might readily march up far into the country and be safe. Fair means is the only way to reclaim them; and in order to it endeavours of that nature have been used, but so ill managed that several of the pyrates who relied upon promises (and even Proclamations) and thereupon surrender'd themselves, having lost some their lives, all their effects, and been treated in a most inhumane manner, it is not to be expected the rest should come in without more ample security for the safety both of their lives and treasure, but have declared they are still willing to come in, on condition they were rendered secure to their satisfaction. And though their treasure has been all got by robbery, yet since it can never be restored to the owners, having been taken (mostly, if not wholly) from the subjects of the Great Mogull, etc., and now lies buried or useless in or near Madagascar, it's much better they should be permitted to bring it to England with safety, where it may do good, etc., and the pyrates be reclaimed and become bold and skilful mariners and subjects of H.M. etc. Proposes that a person of considerable quality, well known to them, be sent with a pardon and conditions of surrender; and escort them to England with a squadron of 4 or 5 H.M ships, etc. Printed. 3¾ pp.
The above source was written in 1922, purporting to quote a pamphlet titled Reasons for Reducing Pyrates at Madagascar. It is undated and the author is anonymous but the pamphlet has been attributed to Josiah Burchett and is presumed to date c. 1707.

The pamphlet is held at Guildhall Library (BSIDE 22.102).

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Is there a way online to verify if the text quoted above (dated 1922) is actually from this document and an accurate quotation? I only could find a photo of the first pamphlet page. My scepticism that any of these quotes actually exist is based on the fact I dug up the actual trial witness testimonies of Captain Kidd and none state he buried treasure (on the contrary they make it clear Kidd did not set foot on Gardiner's Island) but since at least the 19th century, many sources distorted or misquoted these. It is always best to check the original/primary source.
 
Hi Crypted 1690 Just to make it clear to you, I have never said in my life that Captain Kidd and Captain Every (or Avery as you prefer to call him.) ever sailed together to Oak Island. Your glaring error raises the question, did you actually read my book that you gave a scathing review of. :nono:

In my book I merely suggested that it is possible that the Knights Templar may have stored their own treasures in the Oak Island repository, that's because back then the subterranean flood tunnel protection system rendered it impregnable, and it still does unless you know how to deactivate it like me.:icon_thumleft:

Oak Island Sage
Slitting hairs. You claim Kidd was Avery's (Every's) "secret partner" who "sought investors for their ambitious scheme". You describe both Kidd and Avery as being involved in an "Oak Island mine" and burying treasure on Oak Island. It is difficult to determine if you actually believe what you say or are making a mockery/parody of these far-fetched and preposterous claims. Are you sincere in your beliefs or are you fooling around? (I mentioned Poe's Law in my earlier comment). For example, at the end of your book you state:
I will also disclose how to deactivate the deadly booby-trapped flood tunnel protection system, which is vitally requisite for the safe recovery of the massive treasure, and I will also reveal its astonishing estimated value today.
This can easily be interpreted as some sort of humour; was this written as tongue in cheek?
 
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Captain William Kidd was executed 325 years ago today.
May 23rd 1701.
 
Slitting hairs. You claim Kidd was Avery's (Every's) "secret partner" who "sought investors for their ambitious scheme". You describe both Kidd and Avery as being involved in an "Oak Island mine" and burying treasure on Oak Island. It is difficult to determine if you actually believe what you say or are making a mockery/parody of these far-fetched and preposterous claims. Are you sincere in your beliefs or are you fooling around? (I mentioned Poe's Law in my earlier comment). For example, at the end of your book you state:

This can easily be interpreted as some sort of humour; was this written as tongue in cheek?
Slitting hairs. You claim Kidd was Avery's (Every's) "secret partner" who "sought investors for their ambitious scheme". You describe both Kidd and Avery as being involved in an "Oak Island mine" and burying treasure on Oak Island. It is difficult to determine if you actually believe what you say or are making a mockery/parody of these far-fetched and preposterous claims. Are you sincere in your beliefs or are you fooling around? (I mentioned Poe's Law in my earlier comment). For example, at the end of your book you state:

This can easily be interpreted as some sort of humour; was this written as tongue in cheek?
Crypted1990, do try to concentrate, nowhere in my book (that you claimed to have read) I have ever once said that either Captain Kidd or Captain Every buried treasure on Oak Island Island, that's a lie. :nono:
I have not stated at the end of my book what you have again falsely claimed. quote, "This can easily be interpreted as some sort of humour; was this written as tongue in cheek. Could you refrain from putting lies about me in the public domain please. :nono:
I don't need to quote from Poe's Law to strengthen my response to your disparaging remarks, as far as Oak Island is concerned sorry to have to tell you this but you are really not in my league.
There are real vital clues on the genuine China Sea map and the Deadman Island map but you (and some experts) are just not smart enough to find them, so why not quit while I'm some distance ahead of the field .
If I get the call I can recover the treasure of Oak Island in two weeks for less than $2,000 can you do that, naw! You should just stick to showing dusty old records, that's about your speed, you can talk the talk but you sure as hell can't walk the walk.

Oak Island Sage
 
Crypted1990, do try to concentrate, nowhere in my book (that you claimed to have read) I have ever once said that either Captain Kidd or Captain Every buried treasure on Oak Island Island, that's a lie. :nono:
I have not stated at the end of my book what you have again falsely claimed. quote, "This can easily be interpreted as some sort of humour; was this written as tongue in cheek. Could you refrain from putting lies about me in the public domain please. :nono:
I don't need to quote from Poe's Law to strengthen my response to your disparaging remarks, as far as Oak Island is concerned sorry to have to tell you this but you are really not in my league.
There are real vital clues on the genuine China Sea map and the Deadman Island map but you (and some experts) are just not smart enough to find them, so why not quit while I'm some distance ahead of the field .
If I get the call I can recover the treasure of Oak Island in two weeks for less than $2,000 can you do that, naw! You should just stick to showing dusty old records, that's about your speed, you can talk the talk but you sure as hell can't walk the walk.

Oak Island Sage
Quotes from the book:
Captain Kidd now had a massive treasure and rich cargo on board the Adventure Prize that he needed to safely convey on the long voyage to Oak Island, Nova Scotia;
Captain Kidd... One thing was abundantly clear to him; he had to get the treasure directly to Oak Island in all haste
Captain Kidd sailed the Adventure Prize slowly through Mahone Bay and headed for what is today known as Oak Island.
The repository of Oak Island not only still contains the treasures of Captain Kidd and Captain Henry Every
You claim this "repository" was subterranean and one book chapter is titled: "The Secret Mine Beneath Oak Island".
Each treasure chest was lowered with a ship's block and tackle to the bottom of that pit.
You go on to claim the treasure chests once lowered were placed on a "mining trolley" and pushed along a rail track underground until they reached a storage repository that was below sea level:

...the chests were then placed on a flat-based mining trolley, which, when loaded, was pushed and hauled along a long section of mining rail track. The track system extended beneath the bases of two ventilating shafts and terminated in a dimly lit dry treasure storage repository (25) which had been excavated below sea level, under virgin soil and did not have a vertical entrance.

Definitions of buried:
laid, sunk or concealed under ground
to put something into a hole in the ground and cover it.

placed in the ground and covered with earth.

Again, slitting hairs. You argue Kidd and Avery (Every) visited Oak Island and deposited treasure underground. My point was there is not a shred of evidence for this. You presented no evidence in your book or here. You might as well claim Bigfoot or Elvis lives under Oak Island.
 
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Quotes from the book:




You claim this "repository" was subterranean and one book chapter is titled: "The Secret Mine Beneath Oak Island".

You go on to claim the treasure chests once lowered were placed on a "mining trolley" and pushed along a rail track underground until they reached a storage repository that was below sea level:



Definitions of buried:





Again, slitting hairs. You argue Kidd and Avery (Every) visited Oak Island and deposited treasure underground. My point was there is not a shred of evidence for this. You presented no evidence in your book or here. You might as well claim Bigfoot or Elvis lives under Oak Island.
Hi Crypted 1990, there is a big difference between the words "buried" and stored, I said treasure was regularly stored in the subterranean repository, and the entrance was sealed when the mine was flooded, what part of that was difficult and unclear to you?
In my book it clearly states that it is based on known facts and my historical hypothesis based on logic and probability. Now if that does not please you trust me I won't lose any sleep worrying about it.

If I choose not to reveal evidence for something at this time that is my prerogative. Again you try to attack my credibility with petulant remarks about irrelevant conspiracy theories, cheap shots like that do you no credit. Perhaps you should take look at Dale's book, I'm sure someone would lend you a copy if you wish to learn how to play nicely with others.
Oak Island Sage
 
I looked at the other source you posted:

The above source was written in 1922, purporting to quote a pamphlet titled Reasons for Reducing Pyrates at Madagascar. It is undated and the author is anonymous but the pamphlet has been attributed to Josiah Burchett and is presumed to date c. 1707.

The pamphlet is held at Guildhall Library (BSIDE 22.102).

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Is there a way online to verify if the text quoted above (dated 1922) is actually from this document and an accurate quotation? I only could find a photo of the first pamphlet page. My scepticism that any of these quotes actually exist is based on the fact I dug up the actual trial witness testimonies of Captain Kidd and none state he buried treasure (on the contrary they make it clear Kidd did not set foot on Gardiner's Island) but since at least the 19th century, many sources distorted or misquoted these. It is always best to check the original/primary source.

I did some research on my own as well.

The record in question was not written by Josiah Burchett, but by Peregrine Osborne. Moreover, Osborne had plagiarized the contents of a proposal written by an associate of the notorious con man and pirate John Breholt. Therefore, even if the original document mentioned pirates burying treasure, it cannot be considered credible.

Since this is a thread about Kidd, I won’t go into further detail here, but those who are interested can refer to Joel H. Baer, British Piracy in the Golden Age, Volume 3, p. 415.
 
Good Morning Everyone,

Someone help me to make this movie?

Image to know where is the Exactly point where is buried the Treasure. You know the island, but In this island there is people live there. Very close. They live there.
Do you ask for help to that people, or it is a bad idea, 'cause you will be afraid they make you come back in a wood box?
With this amount, maybe you will think is not safe to speak too much, like I'm doing...
How to do it? How to dig hide from people? How to move the 300 Kg. of Silver and maybe other 300 Kg.of gold? By boat? By Airplane?
How to move it from that country to your country? Anyway is it illegal...
Not easy to solve...
 
Hi Crypted 1990, there is a big difference between the words "buried" and stored, I said treasure was regularly stored in the subterranean repository, and the entrance was sealed when the mine was flooded, what part of that was difficult and unclear to you?
In my book it clearly states that it is based on known facts and my historical hypothesis based on logic and probability. Now if that does not please you trust me I won't lose any sleep worrying about it.

If I choose not to reveal evidence for something at this time that is my prerogative. Again you try to attack my credibility with petulant remarks about irrelevant conspiracy theories, cheap shots like that do you no credit. Perhaps you should take look at Dale's book, I'm sure someone would lend you a copy if you wish to learn how to play nicely with others.
Oak Island Sage
If you want to debate the original map the Deadman's Island map was based on:
 
Good Morning Everyone.

I know the right island where is it the Treasure!

Hope to be able as fast as possible to show you the mystery solved.

Please, can someone let me know this question: What the right things to do if I found the treasure and want to move in the legal way to have a commission?

Best Regards,

William
 
First you have to establish who has legal ownership of the land. Then seek permission to dig from them - after creating a legal contract between you and the landowners regarding what the percentage/finders agreement is. This could take a long time depending on the country and you might not even get permission. Also, disclose nothing re the location until a legal agreement is in place.
 
First you have to establish who has legal ownership of the land. Then seek permission to dig from them - after creating a legal contract between you and the landowners regarding what the percentage/finders agreement is. This could take a long time depending on the country and you might not even get permission. Also, disclose nothing re the location until a legal agreement is in place.
Thanks,s mr. George,

Tomorrow I will try tò contact the authority of the Land.

Best regards all of you expecially to Randawg the thread owner.

P. S. Obviously if I Will get a percentuale, all of you help me with information, will invite to a big party in Italy!

William
 
Tried to contact the local authorities for permission as you said 48 h. ago, but no answer.
Try also by Central government, newspapers and TV news some weeks ago but the same...
Maybe 'cause I use anonymous email? Maybe they don't trust me?
Anyway one of you have many information and I can't contact him now 'cause the administrator. Want you know I want to move in legal way, but at the same time I want to protect the exactly point where it is.
Please Mr. Roger, take a look at your mail (s): a common friend write to you, and let me know if you find the X Point by my information and in that case, let me know if you agree with me about the place..
I'm very excited but nothing move. Feel like run in a swamp...

Best Regards to All.

William
 
Tried to contact the local authorities for permission as you said 48 h. ago, but no answer.
Try also by Central government, newspapers and TV news some weeks ago but the same...
Maybe 'cause I use anonymous email? Maybe they don't trust me?
Anyway one of you have many information and I can't contact him now 'cause the administrator. Want you know I want to move in legal way, but at the same time I want to protect the exactly point where it is.
Please Mr. Roger, take a look at your mail (s): a common friend write to you, and let me know if you find the X Point by my information and in that case, let me know if you agree with me about the place..
I'm very excited but nothing move. Feel like run in a swamp...

Best Regards to All.

William
Well I do not want to spoil your enthusiasm but we all know how it ended last time: With you hanging from the gallows...

I think it was the same approach with a king's commission and all that. Your not even that far this time so take my advice. Go back to your wife (or husband - you never know these times) and enjoy what you got in live: This treasure has a curse worse then Tut's!
 
Tried to contact the local authorities for permission as you said 48 h. ago, but no answer.
Try also by Central government, newspapers and TV news some weeks ago but the same...
Maybe 'cause I use anonymous email? Maybe they don't trust me?
Anyway one of you have many information and I can't contact him now 'cause the administrator. Want you know I want to move in legal way, but at the same time I want to protect the exactly point where it is.
Please Mr. Roger, take a look at your mail (s): a common friend write to you, and let me know if you find the X Point by my information and in that case, let me know if you agree with me about the place..
I'm very excited but nothing move. Feel like run in a swamp...

Best Regards to All.

William
What country are you in?
 

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