LUE MAP CLUES

[cuzimloony]

Quick question:

No wall of words, I promise. (Edit: Looks like I lied about that wall....)

Every single symbol on the LUE had to be drawn with either a straight edge (or square) and a compass. The circles (including the blazing star) are perfect. One circle has a dot in the center just like a compass would make. (The circle-dot is a very important Masonic and sacred geometry symbol symbolizing the creator and the created, the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega, as well as lower level meanings like 'boundaries'). Also every single line on the map is perfectly straight. So again, not one line has been drawn on this map without the aid of a square (or straight edge) and compass. Most "Spanish"maps I've seen aren't so perfect. They're usually drawn free-hand, which is why the LUE map stands out as odd-looking. Every line is perfectly straight. Every circle is perfectly 'radiused.'

Adding to that the: pyramid, triangles, steps, bricks, circle-dot, blazing star and pillars, are all Masonic symbols. Now, to the point Randy made in his presentation, (which was the most educated, put together and erudite presentation of them all... excellent job Randy. I loved it) those symbols can be used by various groups and can be somewhat 'universal.' I kind-of agree, but once you add in the caption Mueller put under the map, it becomes clear what we're dealing with, imo. That caption seals the deal as to this being Masonic. Nobody uses that word but us....and I am almost positive Mr. Carl Deek von Gladson-Mueller was one of us and knew what he was doing when he used it Any Mason seeing that map and reading that caption, will immediately think (know?) that this is Masonic, as evidenced by the letters to Mueller looking for clues while stating that they're "traveling men."

Hitler was no fan of the Masons and had the Nazi's round them up and put into camps. Are we to believe that the Nazi's, who hated the Masons, took to using Masonic symbols on treasure maps dealing with Mexicans/Germans moving gold?

Make it make sense.......

For the record, below is a Masonic painting representing the word in the caption. It can be found by touring your local Lodge. You can read about it's meaning in the Bible.

 

[sdcfia]

The graphic execution of the LUE map, as you say, looks almost perfect. Of course, cartographers have had the tools and expertise to accomplish this quality for hundreds of years. Likewise, Masonic symbology has existed a long, long time. That said, most people would likely agree that the cartoon map "looks modern", ie with a 20th century origin. So we're back at the beginning. Did HBBB provide a clear solution or even a reason for the LUE map?

 

[cuzimloony]

Of course, cartographers have had the tools and expertise to accomplish this quality for hundreds of years.

Agreed! But most cartographers were making actual maps... I don't see many treasure maps that weren't hand-drawn. This hints to your "modern origin" comment, which Bob agrees with. This map, according to Bob is post 1917. It had to have been because there are things on the 1917 topo map you NEED that aren't on the 1900 version of the same map.

Did HBBB provide a clear solution or even a reason for the LUE map?

Yes and no. He did not, in his presentation, give out cashe coordinates. What he told me privately about cashe locations, will stay with me. He DID however show the LUE map, overlaid over the 1917 topo, rotated and scaled correctly, and it looked darn good. The "steps" lined up for the most part. The whole layout extends from just above Roosevelt Lake, to 75 miles south of there. I forget the exact east-west dimension, but I'll get back to you after I plot it out. He named the key cities on the map that help align his "lines" and those city names are all confederate or masonic related, for the most part. His "lines" formed a square/compass, much like mdogs, but much much smaller. He spent a lot of time covering the symbology on Buzzard's Roost that he sees. I need to look up my own maps to get more specific and I haven't had time yet. Bob didn't allow recording so I need to plot this stuff on my map before I forget it. According to Bob, the map is solved. Was it a "clear" solution? Well....some of the broken glass map he pulled out of Adamsville was clear glass, so does that count?

Did he give a reason for the map? Nope.

 

[oldtimetreasurelore]

"Pike was run out by a turncoat rebel" Those damn Yankees!!!

That was a cool story about Pike, thank you for sharing. I hope someday to be able to make it to those mountains. Most of my mountain time has been spent in the Appalachians (from NC to PA), and now in and around the Superstition Mountains. Funny enough, I used to live near Dent's Run. Im from PA. But I was oblivous to the KGC and hadn't read your book yet. Now I live near the Sups...... It's like Im always so close, yet so far......

To answer your question, unfortunately I am not a pilot. I am however an engineer, avid jeeper and a hiker. Where the jeep can't get, my feet usually can. I spend a lot of time out there in the Sups (and south of them a stone's throw from Reymert.....) There is a whole series of mines, stage routes (even forgotten ones) all around Florence/Reymert/The old "Queen Creek" stage stop (which is a long forgotten stage stop/pioneer town I found the other day in between Hewitt and Whitlow canyons) that I like to explore.

FYI Heart Mountain is a doozy to get to now. Both of the hearts now have a bulldozer scar going right up the middle and the horse is almost all but gone.

Another FYI, the strage circular spider-like pattern in the center of the Adamsville cemetary has a sign marker now. They're calling it a Wagon Wheel memorial.

Thanks for the reply Mr. Brewer. Fingers crossed you make it to Moon Lake. Ill be the guy sleeping on the ground next to his motorcycle begging for autographs...... See you there.

Now returning this to the previously scheduled programming..... the LUE.

In this post I'm referring to an older post on another thead, concerning the "Big LUE Ranch in far eastern AZ. Since I have touched on how the coded information can be found and used, here is a secret that most won't notice before reading this.
BIG LUE RANCH CODES, BRAND 333 IS TO BE USED LIKE COUNTING IN THE CRIBBAGE CARD GAME. YOU ADD THE THREE 3S LIKE 3+3=6, THEN TAKE THE OUTSIDE 3S AND ADD THEM AGAIN ITS 6 THEN ADD THE OTHER THREE TO THE ONE OPPOSITE IT AND IT IS 6. SO THE REAL MESSAGE IS 666. IN THE ENGLISH ALPHABET THE WORD LUE IS ALSO 666, THE L =12, THE E = 5 AND U=21 ADD THE NUMBERS AND THEY EQUAL 33 . UNLESS YOU PURSUE THE CODE FROM THE LUE AREA FAR WEST AND FOLLOW A LINE FROM DUE EAST TO DUE WEST YOU MAY NOT CATCH THAT THE WORD LUE IS FOUND 3 TIMES. THE BIG LUE RANCH, BIG LUE SPRINGS AND BIG LUE MOUNTAINS. SO YOU HAVE 33X3=666. ON YOU EAST-WEST LINE DRAWN AT 27O DEGREES NOTICE IT WILL PASS DIRECTY TO, POSTON BUTTE AT FLORENCE AZ. ON MY MAP SOFTWARE THE LINE AFTER 116 MILES IS OFF ONLY 1/10 OR 2/10 DEGREES WHICH IS VERY GOOD SURVEYING OVER SUCH A DISTANCE. WAY CLOSE ENOUGH TO CONSIDER RIGHT ON. THERE IS MUCH MORE TO THIS MATH PROBLEM BUT NO TIME TO TAKE IT ON NOW. IN FACT I THINK I LEFT SOMETHING OUT I MEANT TO SAY, MAYBE IT WILL COME TO MY OLD MINES LATER. SORRY FOR CAPS BUT CAN’T SEE WELL TODAY. OH1 JUST ABOUT TO POST THIS WHEN MY THOUGHTS CAME BACK. I SEE WHERE EVERYONE IS USING TIME TO RESEARCH THE NAMES OF PEOPLE INVOLED. BE AWARE MUCH OF THE HISTORY FOR PEOPLE IS PRE-PLANNED AND NAMES ARE FICTICOUS , OR CODED USING ANAGRAMS. THE PLACE NAMES ARE ALL YOU NEED TO WORK THE MAPS. ALMOST ALL CLUES ARE FOUND ON THE MAP UNTIL YOU NEED TO FIND CLUES IN THE CACHE AREAS. THEY ARE USUALLY, IN THE DESERT AREAS, LAYING IN PLAIN SIGHT. IF YOU FIND SOMETHING LIKE A BOTTLE SHARD AND NONE OF THE OTHER PIECES FOUND ARE FROM THE SAME BOTTLE, PLATE, CUP, POTTERY, LARGE NAILS, SPIKES, ETC. IT IS LIKELY A CLUE, DO NOT DISTURB THE OBJECT UNTIL YOU HAVE TAKEN A PHOTO OR BETTER YET, VIDEO OF THE CLUE WITH A COMPASS IN THE SCENE. IF THERE IS A SHARP POINT OF A LETTER LIKE AN I OR A L OR ANY WITH A LONG LINE USE IT AS A POINTER AND REMEMBER ALL STRAIGH LINES RUN BOTH WAYS UNTIL SOME OTHER CLUE SUPERCEEDS IT OR STOPS IT. IF YOU DON’T HAVE A COMPUTER MAP PROGRAM YOU WILL FIND IT DIFFICULT TO FOLLOW THE LINES WHICH MAY BE 100 MILES OR MORE. SORRY BUT VAN’T SEE RIGHT NOW. MYABE MORE LATER.

HBBB

 

[mdog]

Quick question:

No wall of words, I promise. (Edit: Looks like I lied about that wall....)

Every single symbol on the LUE had to be drawn with either a straight edge (or square) and a compass. The circles (including the blazing star) are perfect. One circle has a dot in the center just like a compass would make. (The circle-dot is a very important Masonic and sacred geometry symbol symbolizing the creator and the created, the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega, as well as lower level meanings like 'boundaries'). Also every single line on the map is perfectly straight. So again, not one line has been drawn on this map without the aid of a square (or straight edge) and compass. Most "Spanish"maps I've seen aren't so perfect. They're usually drawn free-hand, which is why the LUE map stands out as odd-looking. Every line is perfectly straight. Every circle is perfectly 'radiused.'

Adding to that the: pyramid, triangles, steps, bricks, circle-dot, blazing star and pillars, are all Masonic symbols. Now, to the point Randy made in his presentation, (which was the most educated, put together and researched presentation of them all... excellent job Randy. I loved it) those symbols can be used by various groups and can be somewhat 'universal.' I kind-of agree, but once you add in the caption Mueller put under the map, it becomes clear what we're dealing with, imo. That caption seals the deal as to this being Masonic. Nobody uses that word but us....and I am almost positive Mr. Carl Deek von Gladson-Mueller was one of us Any Mason seeing that map and reading that caption, will immediately think (know?) that this is Masonic, as evidenced by the letters to Mueller looking for clues while stating that they're "traveling men."

Hitler was no fan of the Masons and had the Nazi's round them up and put into camps. Are we to believe that the Nazi's, who hated the Masons, took to using Masonic symbols on treasure maps dealing with Mexicans/Germans moving gold?

Make it make sense.......

For the record, below is a Masonic painting representing the word 8n the caption. It can be found by touring your local Lodge.
View attachment 2221803

Something that might make sense is that German and Spanish Masons could have fled the dictatorships, as the Jews did, in Spain and Germany. The United States was probably the safest place in the World to hide assets. Trouble is, they would have to protect those assets from the United States government. But, if the President of the United States were a Mason, maybe he could do something to protect their gold, like make it illegal to own. I don't know.

I do agree that the LUE map is all Masonic and probably York Rite. I do believe that it has two purposes, a treasure map and an illustration of Masonic ritual. I do not agree that it covers one small area. I believe it covers the whole United States.

By the way, I ordered Randy's book, THE LUE: MAP, TREASURE AND MYSTERY, I couldn't put it down. It's an excellent book for those interested in the legend of the LUE map. The chapter, LOST SANCHEZ GOLD, was worth the price of the book, to me. Great job, Randy.

Randy, I found evidence of the 105 degree longitude in the bottom right quadrant. In my theory, the three large triangles represent the United States. The horizontal line that bisects the two triangles on the right, is at 37 degrees latitude. That line ends 2/3's of the way, across the United States. If you extend that line through the triangle on the left, the end of that line is on the Pacific Ocean at 120 degrees longitude. The end of the line on the Atlantic Ocean is at 75 degrees longitude. 120-75=45. 45/3=15. So 15 degrees longitude is 1/3 the distance across the United States, 2/3's would be 30 degrees of longitude. If you add 30 degrees to the 75 degrees longitude, at the Atlantic Ocean, you get 105 degrees longitude, 2/3rds of the way across the United States. Also, 105 degrees longitude is the same longitude as West Spanish Peak, which you mentioned in your book.

 

[mdog]

This is my first post, in this thread, with additional information below it.

In an attempt to simplify the information that I shared in my thread LUE MAP THEORY, MAYBE SOME CONTEXT, I decided to start this thread. I'll keep it brief.

The orientation of the map is South at the top, North at the bottom, West on the right and East on the left.

The three large triangles in the lower right quadrant, represent the United States. The dot at the top of the center triangle is at 45deg 48' 47" N and 95deg 40' 18" W, the site of the Kensington Runestone, in Minnesota. Scott Wolter has written that in 1926 ten men initiated an effort to raise $300,000 to build a 204 foot obelisk that would house the Kensington Runestone. Eight of these ten men were Masons.

The dot in the center of the circle is at 42deg 35' 59" N and 109deg 38' 22" W.

The lower right corner of the center triangle is at 29deg 58' 45" N and 81deg 18' 44" W. This site is just north of St. Augustine, Florida which is one of the earliest Spanish settlements in what is now the United States. The latitude, at this point, is the same latitude as the Great Pyramid of Giza, Egypt.

The horizontal line that bisects two of the triangles varies between 37deg 41' N, on the left, and 37deg 23' N. on the right. On this latitude there are several treasure and treasure legend related sites. They are. the Beale Treasure, the Swift Treasure, Fort Knox Bullion Depository, Blanca Peak, Colorado and Treasure Mountain, Colorado. Further west, the latitude passes 13 miles north of the Four Corners Monument and into the Monument Valley of Utah.

I think this latitude was chosen because it is halfway between the latitude of the Kensington Runestone 45deg 48' N and the latitude of the Great Pyramid, 29deg 58' N, whose latitude is found just north of St. Augustine, Florida. The halfway point, between those two latitudes, is at 37deg 53' N, which is the latitude of the United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox. This is interesting because Fort Knox is mentioned in Von Mueller's caption under the picture of the LUE map in Treasure Hunter's Manual #7. Something else of interest is found in Von Mueller's book Treasure of the Valley of Secrets. In his book, he mentions Blanca Peak, Treasure Mountain and Monument Valley, Utah, all places along the bisecting latitude.

Another place on this bisecting latitude is found on the west side of Blanca Peak. Von Mueller has written that the word LUE came from the first letters of three words written on the map, LLORO URRACA ENTERRARI, I cry, magpie, bury. I believe this phrase refers to the Pioneer Urraca Cemetery at the foot of Blanca Peak.

In the upper left quadrant of the LUE map are five steps that could be used to show latitude, each step would equal ten degrees. Five is also a number that is associated with the five petals on the red wild rose and the five wounds on Christ at the Cross. The red wild rose would represent the blood of Christ. Blanca Peak is located in a mountain range named Sangre de Christo, the blood of Christ. The steps on the LUE map could indicate the Sangre de Christo Mountains.

In the middle of the LUE map, where the quadrants join, there are four corners. These corners could indicate the Four Corners region of Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah.

In the upper left quadrant the Sun and it's rays should be considered a protractor. The rays show degree headings. The headings are 103.5, 119, 134, 150, 165, 180, 196, 210, 227, 242 and 257. Start these headings at the Kensington Runestone and the point in the circle location. Run the lines to the borders of the United States, using Google Earth or a table map that shows latitude and longitude as slightly curving lines. Two more starting points will be on the north side of Fort Knox and at a point 13 miles above the Four Corners Memorial. The intersections of these lines will create multiple locations on your map of the United States. Some of the intersections will be near areas associated with treasure legends. Some locations are at Socorro, New Mexico, The Spider Rock location in Texas, Wildcat Bluff, Arkansas and the Waterhouse Treasure legend of NE Georgia.

New information.

The starting point, of an imaginary line that bisects the United States at approximately 37 degrees North latitude, begins 13 miles above the Four Corners of Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico,. The latitude of the Four Corners is 37 degrees North. On the LUE map, the Four Corners is shown in the very center of the map. Just below the center is a row of 13 short lines, and because the LUE map is oriented with South at the top, those 13 short segments (miles) are located north of the Four Corners.

At the east end of the bisecting line is Montvale, Virginia. I couldn't figure out why Montvale, but then I found a connection between the Kensington Runestone and Montvale. On the eastern border of Maine is the same latitude as the Kensington Runestone, 45 deg 48' 39". The google earth distance from that point to Montvale is 847 miles. From Montvale to the southernmost point on mainland Florida, the east side of Cape Sable, the straight line distance is 847 miles.

The Kensington Runestone is linked to the LUE map. When we find out who created the Runestone, we'll know who created the LUE map.

This drawing shows how the steps in the upper left quadrant can be used to find latitude and how the shallow curve on the right side of the map can be used to find longitude. It also shows an interesting connection between the Kensington Runestone and the star Capella. I wonder what the creators of the Kensington Runestone called it, maybe they called it Capella. Capella can be seen all night long and all year long, at latitudes above 44 degrees north. It could be useful as a navigating reference. Capella could also have a Masonic connection. Masonic tracing boards have two stars, the Sun and another Blazing Star. The Sun can be seen in the upper left quadrant, so maybe Capella was meant to represent the Blazing Star in the upper right quadrant.

The drawing also shows how the horizontal and vertical bars in the upper right quadrant can be used to find latitude and longitude. The horizontal bar can be used to find the longitude of the Kensington Runestone, but, if you move the horizontal bar up and to the right, so that it fills the gap in the vertical bar, you get the 45 degree latitude of the Kensington Runestone and the star Capella as well as the longitude of Capella.

The three large triangles in the lower right quadrant of the map, represent the United States. The dot at the top of the center triangle is at 45deg 48' 47" N and 95deg 40' 18" W, the site of the Kensington Runestone, in Minnesota.

The lower right corner of the center triangle is at 29deg 58' 45" N and 81deg 18' 44" W. This site is just north of St. Augustine, Florida which is one of the earliest Spanish settlements in what is now the United States. The latitude, at this point, is the same latitude as the Great Pyramid of Giza, Egypt. On the drawing, I ran a line from the top of the pyramid to the steps, to find the pyramid's latitude of 29 deg.

The 37 deg. latitude is at the halfway point between the latitudes of 45 deg. and 29 deg.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

So you're suggesting that the LUE and Trabuco's gold are the same?

I'm confident that both Trabuco's story and the Nazi Lue map are connected. They are so closely related that they not only claim the same amount of tons in gold taken into New Mexico. But also the fact that they both claim that the gold was transported thru Mexico in rout to New Mexico. They both referenced an area in southwestern New Mexico. They both claim an area near the border. Hitler started arresting all the Jews in Germany as soon as he took power, which was January, 1933. He took their gold, silver, and bank accounts plus everything that they owned that was worth money. He had not yet declared war against any country. The story of the Nazi spy from Germany claimed that he transported 14 tons of gold from investors, probably belonging to the Jews, into Mexico, which traveled through Mexico on the way to New Mexico. Gold doesn't just fly on a magic carpet from Mexico to New Mexico. This is a very large operation that is going to require help from several states which means several rich and connected business partners. Trabuco controlled the state of Chihuahua which would be the last stop before flying into New Mexico. Without their help the Nazi secret plan would have failed. Trabuco was from Mexico and he was also in need of someone across the border on U.S. soil that he could trust or that was also going to invest illegal gold, which ment that he would be trusted because he was also gambling a great deal of gold. Why wouldn't you not trust someone who probably had more to lose than all the four investors from Mexico. Trabuco also needed someone dependable who had intel on the U.S. government to make sure that the plan was going to work. So there is no way that the German Spy was going to deliver his gold to New Mexico without the help of several rich Mexican investors and there is no way that Trabuco would deliver his gold to New Mexico without someone helping him providing a place where the gold would be safe until the price of gold went up! Both stories working together makes common sense. Trabuco's message clue that the gold was buried a couple of miles from a landmark meant that the gold was buried a couple of miles from certain border land marker in southwestern New Mexico. The Lue map claims that the treasure was buried near the border of New Mexico and Mexico in southwestern New Mexico's hook. The Lue map describes the location, the road leading up to the border so you know that you're not lost. It also describes the direction of where your going and how the sun will be setting in the west behind you where you would soon see a natural rock formation resembling a staircase on the right side of the road pertaining to a small hill, which the map describes as a small pyramid containing a small cave. There are several other symbolic clues that the map tells you to find which will be found in the exact placement that the map describes. The road, the sun, the direction, the landing zone, the staircase, the pyramid, the cave, plus few other clues will solidify that the map is telling the truth about the gold being buried there in 1933. The thought that the Germans hated the Templars and therefore they would not be using Templars symbolic symbols is not true! They were racist against other races but not against stealing someone else knowledge or power. They were never in the business of ciphering treasures. The Templars were the master of ciphering treasures because they were in the business of hiding treasures. The Germans were planing to enslave other countries take their treasures, quickly hide the treasure, cipher the treasures and move on to conquer other countries. Without gold or money? The people could not afford to get help or help themselves. Most of the German army would then move on. The officers were the only ones train in ciphering and they were using Templar ciphering methods plus certain Templar symbols. A good example is that the Templars would reference the number three in many of their ciphers. The Germans used the number three as a secret code among officers by only showing their first three fingers instead of the middle three. Not to mention that they used the black cross which was identical to the Templars cross. So they were in the business of using old knowledge. They needed cipher training to be prepared for war. Training from the best, the Templars! Recorded history will define the pirate? Randy, I cannot deny the fact that they are connected. I rely on common sense and I never deviate from that to include it always leads me to the treasure location.

 

[releventchair]

Beetlejuice anchors one triangle in this picture.
Lines from Rigel and Aldebaran could add two more. Granted not the most symmetrical.

Capella was a North star reference long ago.
It would need a declination today for spot on use with a compass. As North stars are wont.
We use a magnetic compass on topo ect. maps. Making (?) use of a chosen North star more picky than just using a given star.

Handed a star map and visible reference stars directions from thier points confirmed by other constellations has the potential to indicate ground marks.

[Yes, star maps can indicate ground locations on Earth.

• Stars serve as navigational tools, helping to determine latitude and longitude.
  
  1
• Each star corresponds to a specific location on Earth, allowing for precise mapping.
  
  1
• Historical star maps have been used to represent land borders and geographical features.
  
  1
• A globe-earth model can create a star map that plots the exact positions of stars visible from Earth.
  
  1
• The reference frames used in star charts are equivalent to longitude and latitude on Earth.
  
  1
  Thus, star maps are indeed a means of indicating ground locations.]

Capella means other than goat though. Giving us multiple current day entendre.

[chapel​

early 13c., "subordinate place of worship added to or forming part of a large church or cathedral, separately dedicated and devoted to special services," from Old French chapele (12c., Modern French chapelle), from Medieval Latin capella, cappella "chapel, sanctuary for relics," literally "little cape," diminutive of Late Latin cappa "cape" (see cap (n.)).

By tradition, the name is originally in reference to the sanctuary in France in which the miraculous cape of St. Martin of Tours, patron saint of France, was preserved. (While serving Rome as a soldier deployed in Gaul, Martin cut his military coat in half to share it with a ragged beggar. That night, Martin dreamed Christ wearing the half-cloak; the half Martin kept was the relic.) The other theory is that it comes from Medieval Latin capella in a literal sense of "canopy, hood" and is a reference to the "covering" of the altar when Mass is said.

The word spread to most European languages (German Kapelle, Italian cappella, etc.). In English from 17c. it was used also of places of worship other than those of the established church.]

 

[releventchair]

Ye olde reversed directions.

https://support.underluckystars.com/hc/en-us/articles/360022387574-Why-do-the-constellations-appear-mirrored

Pictures in article shows triangles from opposing projections. Earth Vs sky.

[Update February 2025:​

Due to customer demand, we recently changed our star map vantage point to be more in line with traditional projections. The new projection point is from Earth looking upwards. This means that the cardinal directions appear reversed. Now North -> West -> South -> East (CW).

Both new and old versions are scientifically accurate, but they may look different. Please keep this in mind if you ordered from us before. If you'd like a map with our old projection style, please email us.

 

[mdog]

Beetlejuice anchors one triangle in this picture.
Lines from Rigel and Aldebaran could add two more. Granted not the most symmetrical.
View attachment 2221902

Capella was a North star reference long ago.
It would need a declination today for spot on use with a compass. As North stars are wont.
We use a magnetic compass on topo ect. maps. Making (?) use of a chosen North star more picky than just using a given star.

Handed a star map and visible reference stars directions from thier points confirmed by other constellations has the potential to indicate ground marks.

[Yes, star maps can indicate ground locations on Earth.

• Stars serve as navigational tools, helping to determine latitude and longitude.
  
  1
• Each star corresponds to a specific location on Earth, allowing for precise mapping.
  
  1
• Historical star maps have been used to represent land borders and geographical features.
  
  1
• A globe-earth model can create a star map that plots the exact positions of stars visible from Earth.
  
  1
• The reference frames used in star charts are equivalent to longitude and latitude on Earth.
  
  1
  Thus, star maps are indeed a means of indicating ground locations.]

Capella means other than goat though. Giving us multiple current day entendre.

[chapel​

early 13c., "subordinate place of worship added to or forming part of a large church or cathedral, separately dedicated and devoted to special services," from Old French chapele (12c., Modern French chapelle), from Medieval Latin capella, cappella "chapel, sanctuary for relics," literally "little cape," diminutive of Late Latin cappa "cape" (see cap (n.)).

By tradition, the name is originally in reference to the sanctuary in France in which the miraculous cape of St. Martin of Tours, patron saint of France, was preserved. (While serving Rome as a soldier deployed in Gaul, Martin cut his military coat in half to share it with a ragged beggar. That night, Martin dreamed Christ wearing the half-cloak; the half Martin kept was the relic.) The other theory is that it comes from Medieval Latin capella in a literal sense of "canopy, hood" and is a reference to the "covering" of the altar when Mass is said.

The word spread to most European languages (German Kapelle, Italian cappella, etc.). In English from 17c. it was used also of places of worship other than those of the established church.]

Thanks RC, great post.

Sanctuary for relics is interesting.

 

[cuzimloony]

Something that might make sense is that German and Spanish Masons could have fled the dictatorships, as the Jews did, in Spain and Germany. The United States was probably the safest place in the World to hide assets. Trouble is, they would have to protect those assets from the United States government. But, if the President of the United States were a Mason, maybe he could do something to protect their gold, like make it illegal to own. I don't know.

I have to honest..... this one is lost on me. This doesn't make any sense to me. If you'd care to expand, I would appreciate it. If not, that's ok too I guess
Were fleeing Masons carrying hordes of gold?

 

[mdog]

I have to honest..... this one is lost on me. This doesn't make any sense to me. If you'd care to expand, I would appreciate it. If not, that's ok too I guess
Were fleeing Masons carrying hordes of gold?

I'm not talking about fleeing Masons grabbing a saddlebag, jumping on their horse and heading for the hills. I'm talking about an organized effort after recognizing that a country's political situation could turn bad. Treasure legends have many such stories, one of them is in the Black Book. Jesse James helped Maximillian smuggle hie wealth out of Mexico, or so the legend goes.

 

[cuzimloony]

I'm not talking about fleeing Masons grabbing a saddlebag, jumping on their horse and heading for the hills. I'm talking about an organized effort after recognizing that a country's political situation could turn bad. Treasure legends have many such stories, one of them is in the Black Book. Jesse James helped Maximillian smuggle hie wealth out of Mexico, or so the legend goes.

Im not sure Germany or Spain had the kind of powerful monied Masons to be doing something like that. Possibly Germany did, but surely not Catholic Spain. There were Lodges there, but Id hardly call them powerful or influencial.

The "worker" stonemason types came from places like Germany. The aristocratic monied Masons, the ones who could move huge amounts of gold, were British, French and later American. This is only my opinion and Im not trying to argue Just trying to flesh it out.

Im not saying you're wrong either. Absolutely not saying that. I have no evidence either way..... just working through my own thoughts.

 

[cuzimloony]

I have seen on Randy's presentations some "pre" LUE maps. Meaning, versions of the LUE that predate the one we are typically discussing.
These "pre" versions, to me at least, do not look overtly Masonic.
It appears it became overtly Masonic when the "pre" maps got to Mueller and he altered them, or...... am I seeing this wrong? Maybe I dont understand the beginnings of this map well (I dont), but Im curious what happened. Was this a "Spanish" map that became Masonic once the "Organization" got it? Was it always a "low-key" Masonic document that got expanded upon?
I Know there are LUE history experts in here and Im hoping one (or more) of you fine gentlemen might take some time to set me straight on this.....

 

[point hunter]

I have seen on Randy's presentations some "pre" LUE maps. Meaning, versions of the LUE that predate the one we are typically discussing.
These "pre" versions, to me at least, do not look overtly Masonic.
It appears it became overtly Masonic when the "pre" maps got to Mueller and he altered them, or...... am I seeing this wrong? Maybe I dont understand the beginnings of this map well (I dont), but Im curious what happened. Was this a "Spanish" map that became Masonic once the "Organization" got it? Was it always a "low-key" Masonic document that got expanded upon?
I Know there are LUE history experts in here and Im hoping one (or more) of you fine gentlemen might take some time to set me straight on this.....

Cuz, I personally only know two versions of the LUE map origin. Of course the one most popular on Tnet is Mr. Mueller & company got the map from someone in Arizona. Copied it and returned it. If so, where is it now? Now there was a version I read years ago about it coming from Utah. If I remember right Hardrock Hammond got the map from the pioneer women archives. That name may not be correct but it's close. Of course they said they didn't have it or know anything about it. This map gets around for something no one claims to have right? I am very interested in these earlier versions and any info you or others want to share. Do you know if these maps are included in Mr. Bradford's book?

 

[cuzimloony]

Cuz, I personally only know two versions of the LUE map origin. Of course the one most popular on Tnet is Mr. Mueller & company got the map from someone in Arizona. Copied it and returned it. If so, where is it now? Now there was a version I read years ago about it coming from Utah. If I remember right Hardrock Hammond got the map from the pioneer women archives. That name may not be correct but it's close. Of course they said they didn't have it or know anything about it. This map gets around for something no one claims to have right? I am very interested in these earlier versions and any info you or others want to share. Do you know if these maps are included in Mr. Bradford's book?

Start at the 50 minute mark.

 

[mdog]

Start at the 50 minute mark.

Those are drawings that von Mueller put in his Treasure of the Valley of Secrets book. I don't know if anybody has confirmed the location of the carvings or if they even exist.

 

[cuzimloony]

Those are drawings that von Mueller put in his Treasure of the Valley of Secrets book. I don't know if anybody has confirmed the location of the carvings or if they even exist.

I though I heard Randy say one of them was produced in a book in the early 1900's, but....that might have been the book, about the book, which maybe confused me. I don't know...... this thing is weird.

 

[point hunter]

Those are drawings that von Mueller put in his Treasure of the Valley of Secrets book. I don't know if anybody has confirmed the location of the carvings or if they even exist.

Thank you Sir. I was getting to that, but I'm busy doing other things around the house. No disrespect intended to Mr. Bradford or Mr. Mueller but those drawings do not exist in the field. I'll repeat that, they don't exist, I don't believe they ever did, and will pay anyone 10 new silver eagles if they prove me wrong. These clues came out in what the mid 60's/70's in print form right? You can't make me believe some tracker/treasure hunter hasn't went to these areas and looked for them. You know they have. You also know most would be showing their pics off. If I lived near one of the areas mentioned, I would be looking for them without a doubt.
Now a story comes to mind of a map, I don't remember all the details but I didn't hear Mr. Bradford mention it, but I'm busy. Supposedly there is an earlier version of the map in print in some obscure turn of the century book about the Spanish I think. If I remember right Mr. Mueller mentioned this clue also, but alas this book has never been found. Sound familiar?

 

[mdog]

Thank you Sir. I was getting to that, but I'm busy doing other things around the house. No disrespect intended to Mr. Bradford or Mr. Mueller but those drawings do not exist in the field. I'll repeat that, they don't exist, I don't believe they ever did, and will pay anyone 10 new silver eagles if they prove me wrong. These clues came out in what the mid 60's/70's in print form right? You can't make me believe some tracker/treasure hunter hasn't went to these areas and looked for them. You know they have. You also know most would be showing their pics off. If I lived near one of the areas mentioned, I would be looking for them without a doubt.
Now a story comes to mind of a map, I don't remember all the details but I didn't hear Mr. Bradford mention it, but I'm busy. Supposedly there is an earlier version of the map in print in some obscure turn of the century book about the Spanish I think. If I remember right Mr. Mueller mentioned this clue also, but alas this book has never been found. Sound familiar?

You could probably be safe to say that a lot of "LUE carvings" appeared in the field, after von Mueller displayed the LUE map in Treasure Hunters Manual #7.